SinistralRifleman Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I was reading on another forum about this technique called "Center Axis Re-lock"....never heard of it before, so I went to the website of a company that teaches it to find out what it was. From what I can understand, it is basically a form of point shooting. Here's the demo videos: http://www.sabretactical.com/C_A_R_/Video_...ideo_clips.html Watching the guy he appears to be very fast...but I have seen people use sighted shooting just as fast in USPSA/IPSC. Outside of a "tactical" environment does this technique have practical application in competion shooting? How accurate could someone reasonably be using this technique beyond the ranges shown in the videos? I'm not giving my opinion on this, just curious what experienced competition pistol shooters have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bah! Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Not impressed. Point shooting with no index. At 12 or 15 yards a bunch of total misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Don't discount point shooting completely. When my C-more died at nats right after the beep I point shot the whole stage. No mikes and I went 1 for 1 on the 2 long poppers. Granted I was 5 seconds slower but had the hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Actually, from what I've read at that site and some other "tactical" and self defense forums (like Gabe Suarez's Warriortalk), C.A.R. shooting is comprised of both retention, point shooting and "extended" sighted shooting. You'll notice the gun is canted a bit and the aiming is done with the off side eye. That is if you shoot right handed, you aim with your left. The idea is to eliminate binocular sighting, since the system speciphically teaches to block your gun side eye with your nose. Like I said, I have no experience with the system at all, but I just wanted to point out it is not exclusively point shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 Actually, from what I've read at that site and some other "tactical" and self defense forums (like Gabe Suarez's Warriortalk), C.A.R. shooting is comprised of both retention, point shooting and "extended" sighted shooting. You'll notice the gun is canted a bit and the aiming is done with the off side eye. That is if you shoot right handed, you aim with your left. The idea is to eliminate binocular sighting, since the system speciphically teaches to block your gun side eye with your nose.Like I said, I have no experience with the system at all, but I just wanted to point out it is not exclusively point shooting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks, that is a better explanation of what it actually is than what I had been able to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 IMHO, like any "guru technique", you could get good enough with it to do well, but why bother when so many others do as well or better without it? That goes double for competition. Don't get me started on stance-gurus either or I'll have to whip out the 50 AE Egret again. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 No comment! Nolan Skilled, but otherwise unremarkable! Post #26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 A "system", a set of beliefs, relies on faith. Adherents are doing what they're told. A "sport", like uspsa, provides its own proof. Winners are doing what works. Look at what the winners in a sport are doing & you won't be too far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I prefer the "Double Spring Arm Cam Lock Trunkfire" technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I prefer the "Double Spring Arm Cam Lock Trunkfire" technique. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John..Do you also utilize the "Tank Turrent Ball Bearing Swivel" subset technique??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I ran into these guys at the SWAT roundup a few years ago. They saw me smiling watching their video, and figured (wrongly) I was impressed and interested. I was simply amused and he caught me about half a second before the giggling and head shaking started. Then things really went down hill....I gave them my card as training manager for our program . This guy STILL sends me emails and phones three years later. Couple of things I noticed or found out; They have named their company something that obviously intentionally insinuates a connection with FLETC. They are not affiliated with them or any gov agency at all. The guy with the British accent is some sort of half assed IPSC / SWAT / operator wannabe. There are strong rumors he can't return to UK. I honestly figure his demo is one any middle of the road "B" shooter could do given half an hour of practice and voice lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I'm no tacti-ninja.... Appears to me that, in most of those cases of multiple targets, he'd be whacked about the third shot into the first target.... Not to mention that he's slow w/ the long guns, too.... heh heh.... If the opponent in the Reload video had a knife or something, he'd be cut up, too... guy was on top of him. Just cause you shoot him doesn't mean the fight's over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 We're discussing the technique of some goofy civillian yutz who wears a boonie hat, thigh rig, shoots in some kind of bastardized weaver stance, and has what appears to be a gas mask strapped to his knee.....? Oooookay..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 We're discussing the technique of some goofy civillian yutz who wears a boonie hat, thigh rig, shoots in some kind of bastardized weaver stance, and has what appears to be a gas mask strapped to his knee.....?Oooookay..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And always seems to start with the gun pointed at the target! Nolan Skilled, but otherwise unremarkable according to Post #26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Nolan Interesting?? comments by some of the guys on the forum you linked... AND, it answered my unasked question as to where you came up with your "skilled but otherwise unremarkable" tagline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Don't discount point shooting completely. When my C-more died at nats right after the beep I point shot the whole stage. No mikes and I went 1 for 1 on the 2 long poppers. Granted I was 5 seconds slower but had the hits. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh..I agree, Chris. But even without seeing you on the stage you mention here I would feel certain you had a much different plaform than what is linked here as a "demonstration/exhibition" of the REAL way to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 If the opponent in the Reload video had a knife or something, he'd be cut up, too... guy was on top of him. Just cause you shoot him doesn't mean the fight's over... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually... In that video he dryfires (meaning the gun is empty or has malfunctioned), which is the "go" signal for the attacker to charge; reloads and acts all "I gotcha!". This has always bothered me because in the event of an empty gun, or malfunction, he wouldn't have a ready to fire gun just by replacing the magazine. The only explanation I can come up with his behaviour would be the belief in that Glock occurance of slide shutting (and round chambering) when a mag is forcefully inserted (I know it happens on other guns too, as a matter of fact, it happens in mine; but Glocks are known to do this quite often). But I think that relying your reload on that is quite sloppy technique at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 which mall are you guys at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I am telling you I ACTUALLY MET THESE GUYS.... ....now who wants to touch me? I SAID WHO WANTS TO F%!#$ING TOUCH ME!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I SAID WHO WANTS TO F%!#$ING TOUCH ME!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shut your f*****g face, Uncle F****r!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Did I mention whe I was in La Paz there was a shooter who hardly spoke a word of English, but knew all the words to "BLAME CANADA" and kept singing it. That never failed to crack me up!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I'd appreciate it if we could keep to discussing the technique (FWIW)...as opposed to the individual(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Ahhh, I'm still wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes. I think just about ANY technique will work if you are standing close enough to the target to REACH OUT AND BAT IT OFF THE HANGER WHEN YOU RUN OUT OF BULLETS!!!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Personally I think the technique needs a little diet and exercise. Nolan Skilled, but otherwise unremarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I'd appreciate it if we could keep to discussing the technique (FWIW)...as opposed to the individual(s). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fair enough, it's hysterical, but might be a fun way to burn up other people's ammo as long as I didn't have to do it so much it might "stick". I can't wait to hear about this guy trying to defend it in court. "Well your honor, as the founder of this cutting edge techinique, really a system as it were, I realized that one way to be sure my CAR index was perfect was to have the slide bounce off my head in the same place every shot. That way, as I black out from each sucessive concussion I get an instant sight picture in my mind's eye. Functionally, the fat content of my forehead also acts as a kind of shok buff, for those "operators" and high end users among us who understand that sort of thing, and it does soften felt recoil considerably." Sorry guys, the censors tripped of line again. I know, if I don't have something nice to say......make a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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