Help w/ lee factory crimp 40 die

[nikdanja]

Got it all set up and it’s rough getting the case into the die but when it’s in it’s smooth, just like it should be. When I go to bring the case out of the die, I meet the same resistance that I had going into the die. I even put some case lube on some cases and still had the same problem. 

 

Is this normal? 

[nikdanja]

I’m using coated bullets. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

Are you lubing the cases ?

[bigedp51]

Are you talking about the Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring in its base?

This Lee factory crimp die is a cheat for people who do not trim their brass to a uniform length. ( I know the vast majority of reloaders never trim their pistol brass)

"BUT" when the bullet is crimped the longer cases can bulge below the crimp and the carbide ring sizes  any bulged cases again.

And oversized cast bullets will be sized smaller in diameter in the Lee factory crimp die.

The Lee factory crimp die works best with standard diameter jacketed and plated bullets. And can cause problems with oversized cast bullets and increased sizing effort.

[Furrly]

I have never used Lee crimp die, dillion and redding for me.. They both have Work great.. And have never had to trim brass...not very common with pistol brass.. 

 

Load fmj and coated bullets. 

[SlvrDragon50]

How did you set up the die?

[zzt]

I would think it has to be the bullet you are using, or your decapping/resizing die  I'm currently loading Precision coated bullets.  they are .401" in diameter, and everything works smooth as silk.  I previously loaded .401" X-Treme bullets and .400 MG and Rainier bullets with the same die.  No problems with any of them.

 

I'm using Hornady dies for everything else.  The Carbide Factory Crimp Die does size my cases.  I know this because the sides of the case are shinier when they come out.  It must only be a little bit, because if there is no round under that station, the press is not easier to operate.  Your resizing die may not be reducing the size as much as my Hornady die.

[StuckinMS]

I use all Lee dies in my .40 set up.  I load Blue Bullets now, but have done lead cast, extreme,  and BBI. Never had a problem. You should set it up as per the instructions that came with your die.  You can always call Lee if that doesn't work. 

[HesedTech]

Basically the rule of thumb is this; never use the Lee FCD with coated or plated bullets. From personal experience, it will swage the bullet down and effect the accuracy, even to tumbling of the round. 

 

Standard sizing, the Mr. Bullet powder funnel (Dillon 650), bullet seating, and tapered crimp dies. If cases are bulged and the desire is to save them, Lee’s “Bulge Buster” and the FCD will fix them. 

[StuckinMS]

HesedTech,

I am not sure what bullets you were loading, but the Blues, Bbi, Extreme, and my personal lead cast all were .400 and I never used anything but the lee dies. Never had a bullet tumble or an accuracy problem.   I shot around 65,000 BBI, 5,000 Extreme, 16,000 Blue Bullets, and 15 gallons of cast bullets through multiple guns.  

 

OP,

No matter whether you are using plated, coated, or jacketed bullets you need to use just enough crimp to prevent bullet set back or fall out.  Once you get your dies set up correctly you will enjoy them.  And HesedTech is correct on the buldged buster, but in my experience the Redding Grx carbide die is better.  

[HesedTech]

10 hours ago, StuckinMS said:

HesedTech,

I am not sure what bullets you were loading, but the Blues, Bbi, Extreme, and my personal lead cast all were .400 and I never used anything but the lee dies. Never had a bullet tumble or an accuracy problem.   I shot around 65,000 BBI, 5,000 Extreme, 16,000 Blue Bullets, and 15 gallons of cast bullets through multiple guns.  

 

OP,

No matter whether you are using plated, coated, or jacketed bullets you need to use just enough crimp to prevent bullet set back or fall out.  Once you get your dies set up correctly you will enjoy them.  And HesedTech is correct on the buldged buster, but in my experience the Redding Grx carbide die is better.  

 

Stuck

 

I was using Blues and the Lee FCD to crimp and bring to standard my loads. I have also seen the same happen to plated bullets, especially Raniers, where the FCD swaged the bullet down as it “returned” the load to specs. Results were junk ammo with keyholes and poor accuracy, but the loads looked good (before they were shot). :)

 

Essentially I found using the FCD, with the exception of bulge busting (same as Grx), is never needed. Just use a normal tapered crimp die and as you state, never dent or mark the bullet. 

 

BTW I’ve loaded over 20k coated bullets, Eggleston, Blue and Acme, and 5k plated in Extreme and Ranier with great success. Right now my go to brand is FMJ Precision Delta, but if I go back to coated it will be Acme. 

 

I load with Dillon 650 and use primarily the stock Dillon dies now and will probably run at least 20k this year. I recently did a run of brass with the Lee U die and found the stock Dillon dies actually produced more consistent results than U Lee. Standard Lee’s seem work as well as any other dies, I do prefer the Dillon spring decapper pin over the clamp on the Lee. 

 

 

 

[zzt]

HT, my experience is not the same as yours.  Rainier bullets are .400" and are not swagged smaller by the Carbide Factory Crimp die.  They do not keyhole and they go into the same hole at 15 yards from a rest.  If you use a .401" bullet the die will swage them down to .400", but accuracy is not affected, at least with BBI, Acme or the Precision coated I am now using.  They are not as accurate as the Rainier, but they still go into a hole about the size of a quarter (outside to outside.  I also put enough crimp on any bullet to ensure there will be no setback.  That amount of crimp puts a slight ring around the bullet.  There is zero difference in accuracy between an uncrimped bullet and one crimped as Lee suggests in the setup sheet (touch and 1/2 turn more).

 

I don't bulge bust my cases.  I simply use too many of them to take the time.  Using the Lee die reduced the number of round failing chamber checking fro 18-20% down to 1-2%.  Additionally, those 1 or 2% that fail the case gauge do feed, chamber and eject.

 

As it happens, I use the Lee Crimp die in 45 ACP for my bullseye loads.  With my bullseye brass (all same headstamp) it never resizes the brass or the bullet.  It does sometimes for my competition loads using mixed HS range brass, but never full length like the 40 die does..

[sixsixnine]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

HT, my experience is not the same as yours.  Rainier bullets are .400" and are not swagged smaller by the Carbide Factory Crimp die.  They do not keyhole and they go into the same hole at 15 yards from a rest.  If you use a .401" bullet the die will swage them down to .400", but accuracy is not affected, at least with BBI, Acme or the Precision coated I am now using.  They are not as accurate as the Rainier, but they still go into a hole about the size of a quarter (outside to outside.  I also put enough crimp on any bullet to ensure there will be no setback.  That amount of crimp puts a slight ring around the bullet.  There is zero difference in accuracy between an uncrimped bullet and one crimped as Lee suggests in the setup sheet (touch and 1/2 turn more).

 

 

Same here.  I've always adjusted my factory crimp dies per the instructions, and have never had any accuracy issues or keyholing with coated bullets.

 

In fact, I've never adjusted it down far enough to pierce the coating of the bullet, just enough to squeeze a little ring around it.

 

[HesedTech]

3 hours ago, zzt said:

HT, my experience is not the same as yours.  Rainier bullets are .400" and are not swagged smaller by the Carbide Factory Crimp die.  They do not keyhole and they go into the same hole at 15 yards from a rest.  If you use a .401" bullet the die will swage them down to .400", but accuracy is not affected, at least with BBI, Acme or the Precision coated I am now using.  They are not as accurate as the Rainier, but they still go into a hole about the size of a quarter (outside to outside.  I also put enough crimp on any bullet to ensure there will be no setback.  That amount of crimp puts a slight ring around the bullet.  There is zero difference in accuracy between an uncrimped bullet and one crimped as Lee suggests in the setup sheet (touch and 1/2 turn more).

 

I don't bulge bust my cases.  I simply use too many of them to take the time.  Using the Lee die reduced the number of round failing chamber checking fro 18-20% down to 1-2%.  Additionally, those 1 or 2% that fail the case gauge do feed, chamber and eject.

 

As it happens, I use the Lee Crimp die in 45 ACP for my bullseye loads.  With my bullseye brass (all same headstamp) it never resizes the brass or the bullet.  It does sometimes for my competition loads using mixed HS range brass, but never full length like the 40 die does..

 

Zzt

 

It’s good people’s experience differ and I have used Ranier plated with success, but typically at USPSA matches when a plated bullet reloaded is having keyholes and tumbling bullets when I ask what they are using; Raniers and Lee FCD (note not the regular crimp die) is the answer. 

 

When I work up a new bullet and load my process includes making a number of demo loads, no primers or powder, pull the bullets and look for over crimping and measure the diameter to see if it’s been swaged down by the die. If they fail then I loosen the crimp and go again until I have a load which works with all the range brass I’m using and gauge checks in a Hundo. 

 

But my main point is this, I find very little need for the Lee FCD and believe it is an attempt to fix a problem that really isn’t there. But as I wrote it’s good people’s experiences differ and this is a hobby. 

 

Your failure rate rate seems a bit high. I found that when I set the sizing die too close to the shell plate my failures increased. It was even worse with the Lee U die and what I think was happening is the brass was getting pushed down against the base causing it to deform/bulge slightly. On my last run of 1000 loads 12 failed the Hundo gauge checker.

 

BTW I shoot Tanfoglios in both 9 mm minor and 40 major and in the last 5k I only have had one failure and that was a stove pipe, which happened on a classifier of all things. I just got back from the range and ran 400 rounds all perfect and consistent. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by HesedTech
Grammar stinks

[bigedp51]

Using the Lee factory crimp die with good results depends on bullet diameter and case wall thickness.

And this is why you see the different opinions of the Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring in its base with over sized bullets. 

Meaning oversized cast bullets and brass with thicker case walls will be sized smaller in diameter.

Just remember case gauges can vary in size (diameter) and "your" chamber is best gauge.

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, bigedp51 said:

Using the Lee factory crimp die with good results depends on bullet diameter and case wall thickness.

And this is why you see the different opinions of the Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring in its base with over sized bullets. 

Meaning oversized cast bullets and brass with thicker case walls will be sized smaller in diameter.

Just remember case gauges can vary in size (diameter) and "your" chamber is best gauge.

3

 

^^^Good Comment^^^

 

The reason I recommend the Hundo gauge is it works and does 100 at a time.

 

I found that after getting the correct OAL for the bullet that fits my barrel any round that passes the Hundo always fits in my barrel. It's a huge time saver over stripping my gun down and checking each individual round, one-by-one, in the barrel.

 

Here's a couple of links (BTW I make Zero $$ from this just passing on info):

 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F3i6vq2084U" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5GqH4GfkWkE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Thanks!!

[StuckinMS]

I haven't had 1 blue bullet,  extreme bullet, or cast bullet check more than .400.  I use a hornady lock in load and we shoot STIs and Sig MAX and Kimber Custom II.  Never had the FCD die swage a bullet or a key hole.  Key holes are usually a too much crimp problem. My son and I go through around 90,000 bullets a year.  We use mixed brass stamps and mixed nickel also, we get our brass from the local police range (glock fired) and run it all through the Redding GRX die first and then put into our normal loading process with the lee undersize die and last through the lee FCD die.  Less than 20 per year fail barrel check.  They get marked, shot at practice and into the recycle bin for the scrap metal.  And we set our sizing die onto the shell plate.  I use the same lee dies for all calibers.  Been doing it this way for 6 years.  I use a lee 9mm makronov die for a buldge buster on 9mm luger to remove the "glock" buldge. Never used Ranier but haven't had the desire.  We use Blues exclusively now for the last 6 months and unforseen future.  They are the fastest out the barrel of the ones listed we have shot prior, clean, accurate,  and very cheap with sponsorship program. 

 

 

[bigedp51]

The following .40 S&W  manufacturing dimensions are from the SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawings.

1. Rim diameter .424 - .010 or .424 to .434

2. Case diameter just above the extractor groove .424 - .008 or .424 to .416

3. Case diameter at case mouth .4231 - .008 or 4231 to 4151

The above are the min and max manufacturing tolerances for .40 S&W case.

And my point being all the posting here are ball park due to the tolerances in sizing dies and the cases. Add this to the different diameters of case gauges that can be minimum diameter to maximum diameter or anything in between. My Dillon .40 S&W case gauge is larger in diameter than my EGW gauge.

 

Example below in .223 case gauges, the case were placed in base first to show gauge diameter. The Wilson and Dillon gauges are larger in diameter than the red JP Enterprise case gauge. The JP Enterprise is closer to minimum SAAMI dimensions and if it fits the JP Enterprise gauge it will chamber in any .223/5.56 rifle.

 

 

Bottom line, chambers, dies, case gauges and your cases can vary in size, and none of the postings  here are gospel and written in stone. And the same SAAMI chamber drawing allows the chamber to vary .004 in diameter. Now add this to the case, die and gauge variations and you will understand why the posting answers also vary.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by bigedp51

[HesedTech]

I'm sorry to have dragged this out, but it seems the FCD from Lee for pistol calibers is a historic debate online. Here's one from 2010:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-92579.html

 

 

So it seems the FCD has a lot of debate about its use, setup, and effectiveness.

 

Got to go. Thanks for all the comments!

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by HesedTech
Added Link

[bigedp51]

56 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

I'm sorry to have dragged this out, but it seems the FCD from Lee for pistol calibers is a historic debate online. Here's one from 2010:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-92579.html

 

 

So it seems the FCD has a lot of debate about its use, setup, and effectiveness.

 

Got to go. Thanks for all the comments!

 

You can also go to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?106715-Lee-Factory-Crimp-die-for-Handgun-Cartridges-and-Cast-Bullets

 

Just remember this same Lee factory crimp die is the same die used in their bulge buster and the carbide ring is a few thousandths larger in diameter than the standard carbide sizing die. Meaning the carbide ring is closer to the base diameter of the cartridge so it is more problematic with straight walled cases.

 

Bottom line, with oversized cast bullets it can size the bullet smaller in straight walled cases. So I never use the Lee FCD with cast bullets and prefer using plated bullets with lighter practice loads and the Lee factory crimp die and less chance of sizing the bullet smaller.

Quote

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by bigedp51

[muncie21]

Lee makes several different design dies referred to collectively as 'Factory Crimp Dies'.  I use the style with the adjustment knob on top for both my 9mm and .40 reloads.  No issues with accuracy or swagging coated lead (provided it is not adjusted too tight) bullets.

 

[SlvrDragon50]

I use the one on the far right, no issues with accuracy.

[zzt]

I use the one on the right.  It taper crimps, not roll crimps.