Definition of Facing downrange

[happygunner77]

51 minutes ago, Sarge said:

If you don’t enforce something locally you are not helping anybody.

 

True that. But I try not to be a nazi as most shooters don't even go to level 2 and up. But you got a point.

Edited January 25, 2018 by happygunner77

[teros135]

3 hours ago, happygunner77 said:

 

True that. But I try not to be a nazi as most shooters don't even go to level 2 and up. But you got a point.

 

So what's a "nazi"?  Somebody who applies the rules, fairly and equally for everyone?  

 

And is a "nice guy" someone who applies rules selectively, or only the ones he likes?  

 

How's that right? 

[Shadyscott999]

Discussions like this are why I absolutely LOVE the recent trend of :

Start Position:  Anywhere inside (or outside) of the shooting area

More options, less nit pick.  

[happygunner77]

31 minutes ago, teros135 said:

 

So what's a "nazi"?  Somebody who applies the rules, fairly and equally for everyone?  

 

And is a "nice guy" someone who applies rules selectively, or only the ones he likes?  

 

How's that right? 

 

Dunno, and none of what you just described fits on what I do. This is ain't school where I have a teacher's pet or a favorite student. I don't have a hint of that thought. You might. These older folks that I shoot with are just there to shoot. As long as they're doing it safely in local matches, I could care less. That's why I would occasionally mention this if there's nothing specified on the WSB and if I see some serious shooters, I'd let them know this is the ruling about the default position. But it doesn't happen often (depends on the local match I go to) as the WSB has always specified the stance (hand positions), saves me the headache of explaning. 

[happygunner77]

1 minute ago, Shadyscott999 said:

Discussions like this are why I absolutely LOVE the recent trend of :

Start Position:  Anywhere inside (or outside) of the shooting area

More options, less nit pick.  

 

Then the shooter still doesn't have options as you just specified the location. Add hands below belt or at side, they that should cover it. 

[Shadyscott999]

2 minutes ago, happygunner77 said:

 

Then the shooter still doesn't have options as you just specified the location. Add hands below belt or at side, they that should cover it. 

 

The point seems to have been missed.  

 

[DKorn]

29 minutes ago, happygunner77 said:

 

Then the shooter still doesn't have options as you just specified the location. Add hands below belt or at side, they that should cover it. 

 

Or “Start anywhere, facing any direction” 

[happygunner77]

22 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

Or “Start anywhere, facing any direction” 

 

Bullseye. 

 

49 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

 

The point seems to have been missed.  

 

 

I hit a no shoot. Dang it. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by happygunner77

[DKorn]

What I got most from this topic:

1) Even if the WSB doesn’t state it, toes/heels on marks still includes facing down range, hands relaxed at sides. 

2) Write the WSB as specifically as you can when it comes to the start position. If you want to specifically allow something (such as facing any direction), then specifically include it. 

[amokscience]

Good luck when the starting marks make it impossible to face downrange.

[motosapiens]

19 hours ago, Sarge said:

If you don’t enforce something locally you are not helping anybody.

 

unless it's something that almost no one enforces, even at area and national matches. then you are helping them by being less annoying.

[motosapiens]

13 hours ago, DKorn said:

What I got most from this topic:

2) Write the WSB as specifically as you can when it comes to the start position. If you want to specifically allow something (such as facing any direction), then specifically include it. 

 

better yet, just include 1 little tidbit like 'wrists below belt' to make it clear to EVERYONE (not just the people who don't want to be annoyed) that you can face wherever you want.

[PatJones]

Good luck when the starting marks make it impossible to face downrange.

Or write better stage descriptions.

[bofe954]

17 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

Or “Start anywhere, facing any direction” 

So then I can start with my hand on my pistol grip?

[DKorn]

8 minutes ago, bofe954 said:

So then I can start with my hand on my pistol grip?

No. This is specifically disallowed under 8.2.3. 

[bofe954]

Nazi

[motosapiens]

38 minutes ago, bofe954 said:

So then I can start with my hand on my pistol grip?

never, but you can start with your hand almost touching the grip if you want. Unfortunately, it's not any faster, and if you haven't practiced it, it might even be slower or more likely to fumble than your standard hands-at-sides draw.

[RJH]

49 minutes ago, bofe954 said:

Nazi

 

Quoted for hilariousness :-)  

[mike4045]

Every club I have shot at is really not enforcing it. A few at the matches will, but not many. I do it to hear the whining. I will also watch them almost fall over trying to time the beep.

 

[motosapiens]

10 minutes ago, mike4045 said:

Every club I have shot at is really not enforcing it. A few at the matches will, but not many. I do it to hear the whining.

 

it's fine if no one enforces it, as long as it's consistent. What is problematic is when 1 or 2 rules enthusiasts decide it will be enforced on their squad, but other squads don't bother. Now we have a perceived competitive equity problem. That imho is the problem with the default position in the first place. It actually makes things *less* consistent. therefore it is dumb.

[bofe954]

Why is it that 8.2.3 is well enforced and loved but 8.2.2 is dumb?

[motosapiens]

14 minutes ago, bofe954 said:

Why is it that 8.2.3 is well enforced and loved but 8.2.2 is dumb?

8.2.3 is easy to enforce and doesn't have any inherent contradictions. I wouldn't say I *love* that rule, but it doesn't make anything worse, that's for sure.

 

 8.2.2 makes stages *less* consistent, partly because there is so much stuff open to interpretation, and partly because it is sometimes impossible to assume the default position, even tho it would appear to be required. It's a rule that actually makes our sport worse, so therefore it is dumb.

[DKorn]

16 minutes ago, bofe954 said:

Why is it that 8.2.3 is well enforced and loved but 8.2.2 is dumb?

 

I think it’s because 8.2.3 says “you can never do _____”, while 8.2.2 says “unless otherwise specified, do _____”, which leaves “otherwise specified” up to interpretation (which DNROI has helpfully done for us). 

[JAFO]

2 hours ago, bofe954 said:

So then I can start with my hand on my pistol grip?

 

Sure, if you're shooting PCC. 

[bofe954]

I think I am confusing the issue more by bringing in 8.2.3.

 

So moto, if it says "toes on marks",  and I have my toes on the marks, you think I should be able to have my hand around (but not touching) the grip of my pistol?

 

Would you start me, or make me put have my hands relaxed at sides, given the rule as it is now?

Edited January 26, 2018 by bofe954