Thinking of going to the EAA/Tanfoglio camp ...

[bulm540]

Walther?

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, bulm540 said:

Walther?

 

That’s my guess. The Q5 is a pretty sexy gun for plastic (obviously I think so) and that’s where all the contingency money is at.

 

Rough estimate says Hwansik took home a bit over $10k from Walther in 2017. What they pay per finish is public, and his match results even moreso.

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[B_RAD]

6 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

That’s my guess. The Q5 is a pretty sexy gun for plastic (obviously I think so) and that’s where all the contingency money is at.

 

Rough estimate says Hwansik took home a bit over $10k from Walther in 2017. What they pay per finish is public, and his match results even moreso.

 

I'm switching to Walther. 

[MemphisMechanic]

For 18 days, then you’ll buy something else. For what I believe is literally the 12th time.

[chrisstophere]

On 1/4/2018 at 5:15 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

...

After I learned to load ammo to “oh, hell. Primers that are flush are HIGH?!” specifications. 

...

Do Tanfos require sub-flush seating of the primers? Do you get ADs or something if you rack a round and the primer is flush?

[MemphisMechanic]

26 minutes ago, chrisstophere said:

Do Tanfos require sub-flush seating of the primers? Do you get ADs or something if you rack a round and the primer is flush?

 

They go click, instead of bang.

 

The pursuit of a 5-5.5lb DA pull weight requires a light enough hammer spring that you have to feed them very fully bottomed-out primers.

 

The same is true of any DA hammer-fired gun with a light DA pull: Tanfo, CZ, or wheelgun.

 

There is .005” to .009” of space behind the primer when you have it seated flush with the case. A striker gun or one with a full-power hammer spring simply has enough power to set it off in such a condition, so those of us who are used to such guns have mistakenly come to believe that a flush primer is a sign of quality ammunition.

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[johnbu]

My understanding of the dynamics of ignition and it's impact on the primer is this;

Firing pin hits the primer.  If the primer doesn't move, the firing pin dimples the brass and crushes the chemical between the anvil (that 3 legged deal in the primer) and the dimple.  IF the primer moves when struck, some dimpling energy is "lost"  in moving it down and it may go click, it may go bang.  All depends on how much energy is left over to dimple the brass and crush the chemical.

 

If you load just a primer (no powder, no bullet) and fire it in the gun, the primer will be sticking out 20-50 thousandths.  The explosive energy of the chemical in the primer goes into the flash hole, but there is more area at the bottom of the primer pocket than the hole. The pressure there, pushes the primer out. 

 

But but but... they aren't pushed out all the time, what gives?  Well, when the gunpowder ignites, it pushes the case back against the breech face.  Normal load pressures and burn rates just push the primer body back flush.  (ever notice your 0.008" deep primers are flush after firing?)  If you have a "hot" load with top of range pressure or higher,  like using clays,  it slams back with more energy and the case hits the breech face hard enough to flatten the primer shoulder or even cause the brass to flow into the firing pin hole slightly.    Heck, i've seen 9mm major rounds that hit so hard the head case stamping is flattened to the point it vanished. 

 

So, if you reduce the available energy in the firing pin to get that nice light DA trigger that even an arthritic geezer like me can work, you have to make sure very little energy is lost.  Smooth firing pin channel, smooth hammer sides, smooth hammer spring and pocket, smooth firing pin, smooth smooth smooth everything.  AND the primer itself has to not waste energy by moving when struck.   Primer not fully seated is the leading cause of "light strikes" and it is also the last place most people expect.  Especially those coming from striker fired guns with gobs of energy (right MemphisMechanic ?  lol).

[chrisstophere]

Ahh, so that's the reason for putting washers or something on the primer bar that I read somewhere on this site. Make sense. I wonder where that post was.

[JROTTY]

2 hours ago, chrisstophere said:

Do Tanfos require sub-flush seating of the primers? Do you get ADs or something if you rack a round and the primer is flush?

Here's my light strike story.  After initial break-in, polished all the recommended parts (trigger bar, trigger bar guide, feed ramp, breach face, etc.) also replaced the sear spring (Patriate Defense reduced power) and installed a 13lb PD hammer spring.  Also replaced the recoil spring from the 13lb that came in the gun with the 12lb.  Then installed a longer firing pin and firing pin block.  Trigger pull was 3.5lbs – nice and crisp.  Went to a match and had way too many light strikes.  So, rather than continuing to tweak the gun and/or mess with the primer seater on my Hornady L-N-L (it’s not adjustable), I decided to return the gun back to all stock.  Since then, the gun has been flawless – no more light strikes.  Checked trigger pull. After 6 pulls, not more than 4.5 lbs and not less than 4.25 lbs which is fine for now.  Probably go through a few thousand rounds this season (my first full season with the Elite Limited Custom), then check the trigger pull again.

[BrknCylncr]

Here's my light strike story.  After initial break-in, polished all the recommended parts (trigger bar, trigger bar guide, feed ramp, breach face, etc.) also replaced the sear spring (Patriate Defense reduced power) and installed a 13lb PD hammer spring.  Also replaced the recoil spring from the 13lb that came in the gun with the 12lb.  Then installed a longer firing pin and firing pin block.  Trigger pull was 3.5lbs – nice and crisp.  Went to a match and had way too many light strikes.  So, rather than continuing to tweak the gun and/or mess with the primer seater on my Hornady L-N-L (it’s not adjustable), I decided to return the gun back to all stock.  Since then, the gun has been flawless – no more light strikes.  Checked trigger pull. After 6 pulls, not more than 4.5 lbs and not less than 4.25 lbs which is fine for now.  Probably go through a few thousand rounds this season (my first full season with the Elite Limited Custom), then check the trigger pull again.

 

 

Go with EGD parts and Henning trigger and your results might look more like this. I did zero polishing. And it’s cooking off CCI primers like a champ.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MemphisMechanic]

@BrknCylncr a reliable single action trigger that crushes hard primers is easy to achieve. Just look at every Open gun being fed magnum or rifle primers, which is most of them.

 

The trick is to make that happen in double action with a trigger under six pounds. This is where things get tricky

 

(I left my Tanfo at a butter smooth 6.25lbs and it ate any Fed/Win/S&B primer you fed it that was loaded flush... or CCI Magnums if they got fully seated.)

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, chrisstophere said:

Ahh, so that's the reason for putting washers or something on the primer bar that I read somewhere on this site. Make sense. I wonder where that post was.

 

That makes a Dillon 650 suck slightly less at feeding a Tanfoglio. The optimum solution is a 1050 or a different brand of press that features adjustable and relaible primer depth adjustment.

 

Shim the ram on a 650 and it’ll drive winchester primers deep enough you can run a 13lb hammer spring in a properly setup gun all day long... yet even with the ram shimmed, a 650 is never going to get CCI’s below flush with consistency.

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[JROTTY]

1 hour ago, BrknCylncr said:

 

 Go with EGD parts and Henning trigger and your results might look more like this. I did zero polishing. And it’s cooking off CCI primers like a champ.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

BTW - what thumb rest is that?

[BrknCylncr]

Memphis- Agreed. DA is tricky, but my buddy Kujo has his Tanfo DA triggers pretty sick and he uses the 1050 to leverage the primer seating.

 

JROTTY- I got the thumbrest from France -Eric Grauffel’s website. Your SA Tanfo should easily get under 3lbs, especially with a Henning trigger. If you have big hands, I have a large Henning trigger available for sale.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[johnbu]

6 hours ago, BrknCylncr said:

 

 

Go with EGD parts and Henning trigger and your results might look more like this. I did zero polishing. And it’s cooking off CCI primers like a champ.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually, a Facebook friend went to the tanfo armorers course in Italy.  The sear /hammer combination is key to a crisp and light trigger.  He also informed me of the FOUR (4!) different one piece sears. Only 2 of which are seen here.

[je85]

On my Hornady L-N-L I tape a large thick washer 1/16-3/32 thick to the press at the location the primer seating pin would normally contact the press on the down stroke. Spin the washer every 1k rounds or so because the primer pin will leave a dimple in the washer. 

[MemphisMechanic]

@je85 go find a grade-8 washer and it probably won’t dimple anymore.

Edited January 10, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[B_RAD]

Been Stoeger pro shop has Stock 2's in stock. For now. 

[lfine]

So a stock 2 from Stoeger or one of the LimPro from Gutt...?

[TravisNC]

3 minutes ago, lfine said:

So a stock 2 from Stoeger or one of the LimPro from Gutt...?

To purchase?  I don’t Stoeger cuts many loose.  BSPS has some but those are factory guns. 

[B_RAD]

4 minutes ago, lfine said:

So a stock 2 from Stoeger or one of the LimPro from Gutt...?

I think I like the Lim Pro better. But buying a used gun for 950?  Probably well used too.

[lfine]

And probably used well, as well.

 

Yes, for purchase.  Don't understand what you're saying there, Travis about Ben's. Could you explain?

[Avenida]

for a 5.5 lbs trigger I just get the light EGD springs and Federal primers go off all day long.

I use a 650 and I just reloaded, never ever looked at primer depth. Federal works just fine.

 

I won't expect anything else to go reliably, nor I would try to experiment with a 5LBS DA. It is not worth my time at least.

 

I just got a 2nd stock 2 chrome that I am going to upgrade to Extreme myself.

 

 

[johnbu]

^^Federal primers go off easily with about any spring.  Heck, with a PD 10# spring, i was 100% w federals and 3#10oz DA and 15oz SA.  Nice DA, but the SA was frick'n twitchy!  lol.

 

If you are allowed to, polishing the guts of your gun will allow winchester primers to be 100% too.

[MemphisMechanic]

18 hours ago, Avenida said:

for a 5.5 lbs trigger I just get the light EGD springs and Federal primers go off all day long.

 

I won't expect anything else to go reliably

 

Based upon my experience with Winchesters and a thin washer slipped underneath the black primer-seating bracket on the frame of the 650?

 

Your gun will eat Winchester primers all day long. It will probably do so without shimming the primer punch upward, but I never tried it so I cannot say so for certain.

 

My gun ran Winchesters flawlessly with a 13lb spring, and the EGD Light is about 13.8lbs.

 

I also had a Bolo installed and had not stroked it yet, so my hammer didn’t travel nearly as far backward as yours does. The Bolo doesn’t hit as hard without tuning it for maximum hammer-stroke, and I did that later.

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by MemphisMechanic