Safety check at A3

[Mushki25]

On 8/18/2017 at 0:20 AM, adamge said:

Do they make a habit of trying to engage the safety on every 1911/2011 they run through chrono?

Remember limited is intended for highly modified guns.  Seems to me some production guns are trying to walk a fine line that treads very close to crossing beyond what the division was designed to be.

[ChuckS]

On 8/17/2017 at 10:20 PM, adamge said:

Do they make a habit of trying to engage the safety on every 1911/2011 they run through chrono?

From what I have seen at major matches, yes.

[IHAVEGAS]

5 hours ago, Mushki25 said:

Seems to me some production guns are trying to walk a fine line that treads very close to crossing beyond what the division was designed to be.

 

I think that is called competition  

[mikeinctown]

I honestly don't think there needs to be a ruling issued as long as the manual states the safety is not meant to be used in DA and one can point to that for anyone questioning it.

[IHAVEGAS]

18 minutes ago, mikeinctown said:

I honestly don't think there needs to be a ruling issued as long as the manual states the safety is not meant to be used in DA and one can point to that for anyone questioning it.

 

I think this would nail it if you could convince the inspection guy to use the Shadow 2 manual for the Shadow 1's and CZ75 CTS's and etc that work the same way. 

[tjbgec]

23 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I think this would nail it if you could convince the inspection guy to use the Shadow 2 manual for the Shadow 1's and CZ75 CTS's and etc that work the same way. 

 

I think you have it backwards. If you look at the original Shadow manual it says, "Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch or leaned against the slide."  http://cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Instruction-Manual-cz-75-SP-01-Shadow_en.pdf I take safety notch to mean half cock and leaned against the slide to mean hammer fully decocked.

For whatever reason, the Shadow 2 manual leaves out the part about the hammer being leaned against the slide. Otherwise it is word for word. I guess they changed something? https://www.czub.cz/media/attachment/file/c/z/cz_shadow_2_en.pdf 

You would probably want to avoid the non Shadow SP-01 manual as that one says that it's not possible to engage the safety in DA. https://www.czub.cz/media/attachment/file/i/n/instruction-manual-cz-75-sp-01.pdf

Are we having fun yet?

[IHAVEGAS]

3 hours ago, tjbgec said:

Are we having fun yet?

 

I'm so confused. 

 

 

Pulled out my CZ 85 manual.

 

It describes cocked and locked & hammer down & says at the end of of hammer down:

"In this state the pistol is safe for all normal handling and at the same time ready for immediate use. The design of this handgun incorporates the feature that the manual safety can not be applied when the hammer is not cocked to avoid reducing the readiness of the pistol for use by accidental engaging of the manual safety."

 

 

[cheby]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I'm so confused. 

 

 

Pulled out my CZ 85 manual.

 

It describes cocked and locked & hammer down & says at the end of of hammer down:

"In this state the pistol is safe for all normal handling and at the same time ready for immediate use. The design of this handgun incorporates the feature that the manual safety can not be applied when the hammer is not cocked to avoid reducing the readiness of the pistol for use by accidental engaging of the manual safety."

 

 

This is correct for not Shadow pistols. The shadow modification is different and the Shadow manual states:  "Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch or leaned against the slide."

Edited August 23, 2017 by cheby

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, cheby said:

This is correct for not Shadow pistols. The shadow modification is different and the Shadow manual states:  "Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch or leaned against the slide."

 

Agreed.

 

Back to the original rules concern. USPSA says "you may not modify an external safety mechanism in any way that effects its function as a safety per ofm design" and CZ states that the thumb safety does not function as a safety when the hammer is down (both with the CZ 85 manual and apparently in the shadow 1 manuals). I do not think that there is a problem with the guns or the rules, just with communication of how the factory intended the safety modes to work. 

[rowdyb]

The problem is whoever is doing the test can make up any test they want.

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

The problem is whoever is doing the test can make up any test they want.

 

I have never met an equipment check person who was doing anything more or less than what they believed they were supposed to according to the rules, in this case apparently at least two other people were consulted to attempt to understand what was appropriate. I can't see this as a personnel issue, although I would agree that some others would likely have taken a different perspective on what was a safety check and what was not. 

[MissionaryMike]

I would prefer not to think that anyone doing the equipment/safety checks are out there to intentionally "catch" someone.  From what's already been discussed, the manual's explanation should suffice.