tjbgec

I think you have it backwards. If you look at the original Shadow manual it says, "Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch or leaned against the slide." http://cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Instruction-Manual-cz-75-SP-01-Shadow_en.pdf I take safety notch to mean half cock and leaned against the slide to mean hammer fully decocked. For whatever reason, the Shadow 2 manual leaves out the part about the hammer being leaned against the slide. Otherwise it is word for word. I guess they changed something? https://www.czub.cz/media/attachment/file/c/z/cz_shadow_2_en.pdf You would probably want to avoid the non Shadow SP-01 manual as that one says that it's not possible to engage the safety in DA. https://www.czub.cz/media/attachment/file/i/n/instruction-manual-cz-75-sp-01.pdf Are we having fun yet?

I would think so. I plan to bring my manual to my Section match just in case. They haven't cared about it before. My manual safety Rami doesn't mention being able to be put on safe in DA, just that it is not necessary. It's clear that there are differences between all these guns. What is frustrating is what is considered ok and what isn't. I would assume that what they figure is right is the safety not even being able to be engaged in DA. The consistent call would have been to say that my backup gun wasn't even good to go since the safety was able to be in engaged. Instead they said that it was ok since it did stop the trigger pull. I'm grateful that I was ok'd with my other gun but it sets up a weird situation that doesn't feel like it's based on safety or competitive equity. It doesn't help that the Shadow doesn't have a consistent function that RO's can go by either. If I send in my other gun to get worked on what would be the best way to have it adjusted? Should I ask to have it so that the safety works in DA and stops the trigger pull? Probably not, but since RO's don't know how it's supposed to be setup that could be the problem we run into. I could have it adjusted so that you can't even engage the safety in DA and then get told that I have an unsafe gun. I know that is unlikely, but it's possible. *edit* This was supposed to be a reply to cheby's post about what it says in his Shadow and Shadow 2 manual's.

That is from the SP-01 manual, not the SP-01 Shadow manual. The Shadow manual is different. http://cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Instruction-Manual-cz-75-SP-01-Shadow_en.pdf On page 9 it says what has already been quoted above and that is what is said in both of my manuals. My guns came this way from CZ custom brand new so it wasn't worn down. If it was fitted wrong then I guess that's on me for not contacting them and sending it back right away. I thought I've seen instructions from Cajun for the adjustable sear that mention that you will be able to flip on the safety in DA but I can't find it online right now. Either way, I'm pretty sure this is common. If you look at my links there are plenty of people that got it that way. I'll probably get it worked on just to avoid the hassle if this is how it could be ruled in the future.

Here is his reply. Not really saying what the call is exactly but letting me know that I need to be prepared to defend it better in the future possibly. Logically it drives me a little batty as you may not even be able to put it on safe in DA but if for some reason it does it needs to work as a safety even though it was never intended to be used that way. It doesn't matter if the safety works perfectly in SA. What advantage do I get if the safety can go up in DA? If anything it's a disadvantage. Anyway, on to the email: The question was not whether it could be put in safe in any variety of positions, it was whether the gun had been modified to allow that. Having only Matt Hopkins from CZ as a reference, and his statement that this was not the way the gun was supposed to function, the gun was deemed unsafe. We don't usually have the time to research this kind of thing at a match, nor are we all expected to be experts on every gun out there. And, the onus for demonstrating that a gun is safe to operate is always on the competitor--the one with the gun in his hand. I understand trigger work,etc., may lead to this kind of situation, but in many people's minds, this will be an altered, and therefore unsafe, gun. I may look into this further, but if I were you, I'd be prepared to have that questioned at any match where the chronograph officer is checking, as he should be. Regards, Troy

I sent the email this morning. I will post the response if I get one.

Thanks eerw and Rowdy. I was hoping some CZ smiths would chime in. I'll email Troy for a rules clarification. I don't know if the Shadow 2 is any different but they did mention it a few times even though I corrected them that I wasn't using a Shadow 2. Hopefully it's just a mix up and I don't need to spend time and money to fix something that doesn't really need to be fixed.

Would that go to DNROI? Troy was the RM at this match so I would probably be out of luck. Maybe I just got too wordy on my first post but I am curious if anyone else has had this same ruling at other Area matches. I totally agree with 858 that there isn't even a safety on DA from the factory so it's hard to say I defeated it according to the rules.

Hello all, My original Shadow that I got from CZ Custom allows me to engage the safety while the hammer is down. You can even pull the trigger. The manual mentions this and it would seem that it's pretty common. You just aren't supposed to engage the safety while the hammer is down. It works fine in SA. Here are a few old threads on it I found. http://forums.brianenos.com/topic/186846-cz-sp-01-shadow-custom-safety/ http://forums.brianenos.com/topic/196869-cz-75spo1-safety/ At Area 3 at the Chrono station he said that since he could put it on safe while on DA and pull the trigger through that it was an unsafe gun. I argued that since you aren't even supposed to put it on safe while on DA and that the safety works as intended in SA that it was still a safe gun. You aren't even supposed to be able to put it on safe in DA anyway. How is this anymore unsafe then a gun that doesn't allow you to use the safety in DA at all? The gun would go off if you pulled the trigger on those ones too. I was overruled by the RM. Lucky for me my backup gun worked to their satisfaction. It still allows you to put it on safe while in DA, but the hammer stops at half cock and you cannot pull through. Has it been like this for awhile? This was my first Area match. Since the manual mentions the possibility of putting it on safe in DA I'm a surprised that this is considered unsafe. When you shop for parts at Cajun they even mention that putting in a different hammer could allow you to put it on safe in DA. I tried the adjustable sear from Cajun but it does the same exact thing. If I screw it down too far I can't use the safety in either mode. I'll probably just switch my backup gun to my match gun from now on.