Scooter Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I'm sure some of you caught the F1 race, or lack of it. Not much to be said besides the only people that lost in this race is the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 It was telling that the FIA refused the request to put in a temp chicane on the turn in question. Even more interesting is that Paul Stoddard, the principal of Minardi, had an agreement with Jordan (both of whom use Bridgestone) not to race unless the chicane was put in. Apparently, Jordan backed out and Minardi was left with the choice of not racing (and losing points and the accompanying travel $$$) and allow their rival Jordan to gather points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 As someone who lives here in Indy, I'm sad, upset and imbarrased. IMS has worked damn hard at promoting this race and bringing F1 (best auto racing on the planet, IMO) to the US and to the greatest raceway in the world. I hope, but am doubtful, that the USGP at Indy will recover from this event. I think that those who ran did the right thing, as well as those who did not. Michelin dropped the ball (intentionally, or not) big time and it cost everyone severely. As much experience as they have with this, and as big a test platform as they have (14 of 20 cars?), Michelin has no excuse for what happened today. Sure, you could blame Ferrari for not consenting to the chicane, but why? Why should Ferrari choose to handicap themselves to make up for anothers shortcomings? I know I wouldn't. I'll say it again, there is no excuse for what happened today. If Michelin had done their homework, none of this would have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Yup, Michelin engineers f-ed up. They only had two test drivers(not the principle drivers) from all the teams that tested at Indy. It's all political BS among the teams and FIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 While I love F1 and have followed it for many, many years, I sure am glad I was at the Ohio Sectional today, watching a real race... The Indy GP was disappointing on sooo many fronts, and unfortunately, the fans lost.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I was at the race. Michelin knew on fri that there was a problem with the tires they brought and promptly reported it. They then had new ones loaded on a plane (apparantly the same batch as the Spanish GP) that would have been OK. But they could not get there in time for qualifying. Michelin asked and the teams offered to let the bridgestone teams start up front if they could change to the new tire for the race. The FIA wouldn't allow it. The chicane was never a good option, no-one had tested on it in that configuration and the differences could be as dangerous as what it was attempting to fix. Ferarri and the FIA are to blame for the debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I don't see how Ferrari is to blame at all. Why should they agree to a compromise when they've got their crap together? These teams have budgets in the tens of millions of dollars. The individual teams and Michelin have no one to blame but themselves in not being prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911user Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Would someone give me a short version of what happened? I did a little searching, but didn't find much info. I don't follow auto racing often, but racing 6 cars out of 20 got my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Would someone give me a short version of what happened? I did a little searching, but didn't find much info. I don't follow auto racing often, but racing 6 cars out of 20 got my attention. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-f...ov=ap&type=lgns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911user Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Thanks for the link. Wow. Everyone involved lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Pat - I didn't know you were going to be in town. Next time, give me a shout! From what I've read (never been to the race, and I live here) in previous years there had been a chicane in the turn they speak about. But, nevermind that, why in the world didn't Michelin have their stuff together and had a plan for this? How many times have they ran at Indy? How much race telemetry(sp?) do they have from not only Indy, but every other F1 race course, and most any other race course in the world? The way I see it, Michelin knew the qualifying rules. If their teams qualified on their tread, by the rules, they couldn't change it, right? If I were the head of Michelin for F1, I sure as hell would be 100% certain that the tires I gave my teams were safe and going to work before qualifying. But, blame Michelin, F1, FIA or Ferrari or whoever you want. The real loosers are the US F1, IMS and the city of Indianapolis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I wouldn't say that Michelin is to be blamed. They asked for a new batch of tyres to be sent asap, but , other teams had to give their agreement and so FIA. I completely understand that the other teams did not gave their Ok, that's race, and eveerybody wants to win. The others teams were advantaged by having the Michelin tyres on one previous race (can't remember which one) over Bridgestone, this time this is Bridgestone ! What I can't understand is why the tires f-cked up . Michelin has a huge experience in racing, they even does the tires on the NASA shuttles ! What's sure is that the loosers are the spectators, and sooner or later, the F1 will suffer too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 The only people really to blame is Michelin for screwing up. FIA only enforced it's own rules. The chicane thing wouldn't have worked unless they did qualifing again. Under the rules they must qualify on the same course they are racing. Plus Toyota knew they weren't going to race so they qualified with minimal fuel. They admited they probably wouldn't make it around the course for a few laps for practice if they were to start with the fuel on board. When Bridgestone screwed up in other races, they didn't try to stop the race. Just a few race ago, Ferrari found a problem with their tires. They ran the car for a while than withdrew from the race. Part of this might also be the teams wanting to split apart from the FIA and form their own series. If that happens it's going to end up like CART vs. IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Maybe they can try to hold the race at a real roadrace track in the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 It would be great if they put forward the race in Las Vegas. How cool would that be having F1 cars flying down the strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Maybe they can try to hold the race at a real roadrace track in the U.S. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Although I'm biased towards Indy, I think you might be right. I think the biggest part of why the race is at IMS is marketing. When people say Indy, most (I think) think of the Indy 500 (the others are probably thinking music). But, another thing to consider is that Indy is w/i one days drive of 75% of the population of the US - it is easy to get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Mid-Ohio. Nuff said My dad used to volunteer for CART back in the day, before the split. Goodyear was the primary tire provider for them at that point. IIRC, they showed up with a veritable farm of tires - several different compounds, and plenty of each for the teams that used their tires. I'm not familiar with F1 rules (not my favorite open wheel race series) - why wouldn't Michelin have shown up with appropriate tires for their teams?? Sounds like a bad idea to use Michelin, to me. Stop whining and accept the fact that you made a non-competitive choice, and deal with it. That's like me trying to tell the USPSA that all folks in L-10 should be forced to load only 8, cause my gun can only feed if I load 8 or fewer rounds in the gun (which will hopefully be fixed in a day or two ). Good idea to alienate all your fans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 F1 rules allows a manufacture to bring usually 1 hard compound and 1 soft compound tire, in addition to the wet and monsoon tire. F1 is different in that you have to qualify and race the entire race on one tire. Only time you can change tire after qualifying is if there is a tire failure/puncture. This is why they couldn't use the backup tire they overnighted from France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 This is why they couldn't use the backup tire they overnighted from France. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, I understood that part. Forces everyone to have the same balance between pushing it in qualifying, and having race longevity - and forces them to qualify on the tire they intend to race on. CART used to (and may still) force their teams to start the race on tires they'd qualified on for similar reasons. I wasn't sure if there was some limitation where they had to use the same compounds at every race or something like that - which I guess wouldn't make sense given that the flew a different compound tire in. Still, someone blew it at Michelin, is what it sounds like. They shouldn't have punished the teams that didn't use the idiot manufacturer (ie, they should have still raced for points). From the news story on the F1 webpage: "Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race." No doubt. Wasn't there a day when race car drivers were real men, who accepted the consequences of their decisions?? Now they're largely a bunch of whiney little b****s, it would seem.... The women out there seem to have bigger stones and greater self responsibility than the men... sheesh.... Enough ranting about something I don't really know much about! heh heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Wasn't there a day when race car drivers were real men, who accepted the consequences of their decisions?? Now they're largely a bunch of whiney little b****s, it would seem.... The women out there seem to have bigger stones and greater self responsibility than the men... sheesh....Enough ranting about something I don't really know much about! heh heh Oh, that's nice. Let's send the drivers out using unsafe equipment, to heck with the fact that the tire will probably fail and send the car crashing into the wall, like what happened with Ralf Schumacher, we want a spectacle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Oh, that's nice. Let's send the drivers out using unsafe equipment, to heck with the fact that the tire will probably fail and send the car crashing into the wall, like what happened with Ralf Schumacher, we want a spectacle! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not what I meant - I was referring to the requests that the teams made to the effect that FIA needed to violate their rules to allow them to be competitive in the race (ie, avoid a speed limit on turn 13), and then they protested when FIA wouldn't (at least, that's how it appears from all the press). They wanted them to alter the track in a way that would potentially be unsafe for *all* drivers, totally negate all qualifying done - or force the other drives to *also* have a speed limit through turn 13. When FIA wouldn't go against the rules, instead of withdrawing (ie, admitting that they and their equipment providers had made a mistake, and could not safely compete), they gridded, then drove off to the side and "protested" like a bunch of pansies. How is that not whining like a bunch of little b****s?? They blew it. They should've admitted it and moved on.... Sorry I wasn't clear - I would not at all advocate sending someone onto the track in equipment known to be unsafe (other than the inherent danger in racing to begin with). While watching a crash can be exciting for the viewer, someone's life *is* on the line - I don't get thrills from watching folks commit suicide. That's analogous to "Gee, I know you think you might have triple charged one of those .45 loads with Bullseye, but I think you should be a man and shoot 'em all anyway!"... no dice!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Even if all the Michelin teams withdrew from the race at the start, you still end up with a pointless race. I'm sure if I was at the race I would be quite P.O. paying all that money to watch 6 cars drive around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Unfortunatly F1 is trying to ruin its sport the way NASCAR did, make everybody equal. For all the fans who attended the race, they should be paid back there tickets, plane fair, hotel fair, travel expenses, etc.. if they can come up with the receipts, and michelin, F1 and the teams that refused to race should be the one's to pay the fans back equally. Maybe then they won't do a stupid move like that again. The bad thing is that for right now the Indy track itself will have to pay the bill for Michelins screw-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 I think that those of you bashing Michelin are overlooking 2 small issues: 1) The tire companies (Bridgestone and Michelin) make tires specifically for each track, (most of the time). 2) Indy had recently been repaved, and it was done so poorly that the Firestone (sister company to Bridgestone) tire test for the IRL had to be postponed, as did a Nascar (sic) tire test, until the track was able to grind down the bad spots and fix it. The repaving/grinding certainly would change the character of the track. The point is that it is possible that Bridgestone was able to get data from the Firestone IRL test, while Michelin was left using year-old data for a track that had since been changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 If it weren't for fans, there would be no F1. I know they don't care about their American fan base, but what little they had is now gone. Like most things in life there is too much politics in the sport. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, they should have come to a compromise and put on a show for the fans. The racing (if you can call it that) is boring enough as it is. It'll never make it here, but they don't need the US anyway. They lost one viewer for sure. Losers.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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