Johrichal Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hi guys my name is John im new here and also new to CZ's. I just bought myself a 9mm sp-01 tactical earlier this month and its already become my favorite gun. I also just started reloading again, I used to load for my hunting rifles but havent for quite a few years and have never reloaded handgun ammo. Ive got everything set up to start besides some minor tweeking of my dies and I bought some dardas cast bullets in 147gr RNFP and 124gr RN. So my question is do any of you guys use dardas cast bullets and if so do the 147gr RNFP bullets work in your CZ's? I loaded a few dummy rounds to figure out my max oal with them and it looks like I would have to load them to 1.008" to pass the plunk test in my gun which is way under the load data(I dont have the data in front of me right now but i believe it lists OAL as 1.085). Am I doing something wrong or will this bullet just not work for my gun? Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncie21 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1.008 is pretty darn deep, even for a 147g bullet. P.S. you'll get more responses if you post this in the reloading forum, under the 9mm/38 section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) your issue is not unique... all cz owners have similar issue I have same gun CZ chamber is tight/ short. never loaded that brand but 1.08 sounds about right. there are threads here and on other sites where people will ream so the can load longer. i haven't reamed my BBL. i've also found with certain bullets ill need to cull out cbc, aguilla and pierce because setaing bullets deeper cause thick hips...... but you are doing the right thing plunk and spin!!! now the fun question what work have you done to spo1 tactical welcome to forun Edited March 3, 2017 by biglou13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johrichal Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Thanks guys. Sorry if I posted in the wrong spot I had just read that this was a common problem when reloading for CZ's so I thought this might be a better spot to post it. Biglou you said 1.008 sounds about right for OAL any suggestion where what would be a good manual to buy that might have load data down to that length? I havent done much to it yet, I put a 13# mainspring, 14# recoil spring, and extended firing pin in it so far. Im trying to decide what my next upgrade will be. Either adjustable sights or a hammer kit. Might be awhile though my wife doesnt seem to see gun upgrades as a necessary part of the budget lol. Got any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef15 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Biglou said 1.08, which is not far at all from Lyman's 1.10, 1.008 is a bit further. I have a short throated barrel, but not that short. Is the bullet ogive still above the case mouth? Is the bullet's bearing surface being swaged down by the case? You'll have to pull one and measure, it's a sure recipe for leading if it's happening, and particularly common in 9mm. You'll need to be very watchful or plunk everyone to assure reliability as you will certainly be into the internal taper of the case wall on some headstamps, which will bulge the cases outward and probably cause stoppages in the chamber. If everything checks out, start at minimum published loads, or even a little lower, like another 10%, and work up. If I recall correctly the fellows offering chamber reaming on here are very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoKimberDave Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I use Blue Bullets 147 grain loaded at around 1.12 and it plunks in all the CZ's I have tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johrichal Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Thanks for the info. I just looked up the blue bullets and they look like the exact same bullet only coated. Ill have to load another dummy round when i get home and check it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 i use manual for reference start low and work your way up.... but cz short-ness and available bullets rarely meet book spec. i think i found a sweet spot on my current test of 130 flat point (grooveless) that is below book i need to chrono to see if it makes PF up grades, i'd polish everything you can polish, reduced trigger return spring (stock one will break), i like the 11 # main spring, i changed my trigger still meets production rules less curved, i didnt go with adjustable sight.... was thinking that at first but after i went to fiber optic front..... i realized i dont need adjustable rear.. and ive shot 124 to 147's if there is a slight change my mind make up for it subconciously....... im shooting minute of A-zone accuracy no plans to to be a bullseye shooter..... i'd look at the cajun pro package as a guide... hammer definitely make for a crispy break cajun has one for the tactical and keeps you in production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johrichal Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johrichal Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Thats the Hammer kit I was looking at. Ill have to pick your brain about the polishing later So ive been messing around with the reloader and found out that it was because of the case bulging with certain brass ran a test with speer brass and it drops right in at 1.122" also found out the PMC brass i was testing last night also fits at that length after its crimped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I used to cull out Cbc, Anguilla, pierce. Head stamps....... tuning------. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) I'm all for loading short 9mm with 147grn bullets, I do it all the time with round nose truncated flat point 147grn plated bullets from Cam Pro. However I've only ever tried as short as 1.090, and I usually run 1.097". Even I would be very hesitant to shoot a 9mm loaded at 1.008". I assume that number is not a typo? 1.080" I would be willing to shoot if I had to. One thing I noted when going through this process recently with 147 and my Shadow 2 trying to figure out if I could go longer on OAL: loading the round on my press but pulling it out of the press before the crimp stage would give false results. I thought it was just the flared mouth I put on the brass for my bullet feeder, so I tried a cleaned spent casing that hadn't been prepped. Same result, it didn't pass plunk test on lengths I know pass plunk test once I crimp them. And I should note that I put an extremely minimal crimp on - the mouth is flat inline with the case walls, it's just enough crimp to take off my mouth flare. Moral of story, are your plunk test rounds crimped or uncrimped? Edited March 4, 2017 by adamge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johrichal Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Adamge are you saying I should preform the plunk test with crimped rounds or without? Like i was saying in my last post the 1.008" oal I was getting was with uncrimped rounds(and probable way too much bell, rookie mistake) I definately would not shoot them at that length especially with the Lyman book stating 1.058 as OAL. I ran more plunk tests with the bullets crimp, like you said just enough to take the bell out and came up with an OAL of 1.095. Let me know if im doing something wrong please Edited March 4, 2017 by Johrichal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I've got 2 SP-01 Tacticals. They have ran several thousand of the following: Mixed brass WSP primer 3.4 N320 147 gr Bayou Hi-Tek coated OAL 1.145 Stock barrels, no throating, never had a problem passing the plunk test. Same ammo makes 129-135 PF in a pile-o-glocks, a couple of 1911's and a M&P pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Once I find plunk length. Subtract .0015. I'll load one complete all dies crimp,and all. Then re plunk/ spin, case gauge. Then load 10. Go to range and test fire 1. Check brass for pressure signs. Load 2 shoot rapid ( function) . Load 3 . Rapid ....... If that is a go try some accuracy testing slow fire or supported. On next loading. I will plunk every 4 th or fifth. Go shoot have fun. now that coal and loading process is good. If I don't see decent results on paper. Work on powder load. After a second successful loading session. I Case gauge only. Afar 500 or so pills..... I only case gauge match ammo. And don't bother with training ammo. i mis read 1.008 is way short. I think the shortest I ever loaded was 1.065. And that was shorter than others shooting same pill. it looks like you last go round got you to the sweet spot. There are. Measurements for how much taper crimp...... Measuring case mouth after crimp no bullet. I think my magic number is .376. I'd confirm but caliper batteries are dead. Bell measument is minimum to hold bullet but I tend to guide pill up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johrichal Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Thanks! From you said I think got it pretty well dialed in for a starting point. Ill let you know how it goes when i get out to do some shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionaryMike Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 1 hour ago, biglou13 said: Once I find plunk length. Subtract .0015. Did you mean .015? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) You MUST properly crimp your rounds when assembling them to conduct the plunk & spin test. The mouth of the case needs to be able to seat firmly at the front of the chamber. If you haven't, start over! The case wall needs to have absolutely no trace of outward flare. Not even .001" of it. Edited March 5, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 12 hours ago, Johrichal said: Adamge are you saying I should preform the plunk test with crimped rounds or without? Like i was saying in my last post the 1.008" oal I was getting was with uncrimped rounds(and probable way too much bell, rookie mistake) I definately would not shoot them at that length especially with the Lyman book stating 1.058 as OAL. I ran more plunk tests with the bullets crimp, like you said just enough to take the bell out and came up with an OAL of 1.095. Let me know if im doing something wrong please Perform plunk test with crimped rounds. Uncrimped rounds give erroneous results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 16 hours ago, MissionaryMike said: Did you mean .015? 16 hours ago, MissionaryMike said: Did you mean .015? Yes I stand corrected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 To be clear, AFAIK there is no actual 'crimp' with 9mm, all you are doing with the crimp die is knocking off the bell just enough that it case gauges OK, no more -- no actual crimp like other calibers. Any more than that, more often than not, you end up with ammo that tumbles. Sorry to sidetrack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, trgt said: To be clear, AFAIK there is no actual 'crimp' with 9mm, all you are doing with the crimp die is knocking off the bell just enough that it case gauges OK, no more -- no actual crimp like other calibers. Any more than that, more often than not, you end up with ammo that tumbles. Sorry to sidetrack. respectfully disagree taper crimp is necessary, it is hard to measure maybe you are speaking of roll crimp...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 hour ago, biglou13 said: respectfully disagree taper crimp is necessary, it is hard to measure maybe you are speaking of roll crimp...... I get exactly what he is saying. It may be called taper crimping vs roll crimping but in actuality taper crimp should be called bell removing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 47 minutes ago, Sarge said: I get exactly what he is saying. It may be called taper crimping vs roll crimping but in actuality taper crimp should be called bell removing Yes, sorry, the case taper that holds the 9mm bullet in from the sizing die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancher5 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Use a factory crimp on a Dillon Press, shoot mostly coated 147Half turn crimp, which seems excessive, though groups are center,,very accurate off a rest.SNS 147 coated bullets,seemed when I loaded 147 Blue Bullets I basically had no crimp still passed the Plunk test, pp, were alway.s telling to crimp more, But never had a problem with BB. 30,000rds,Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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