rowdyb Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 And this is why back in the day there was even an approved holster list for idpa.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACase Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 On 3/18/2017 at 6:20 PM, rowdyb said: there is no more ssp into esp wording. ???? 8.1.2 A. Double action, double action only and striker fired semi-automatic firearms compete in SSP, CCP, PCC, or BUG. Any firearm that can be used in SSP can be used in ESP or CDP, depending upon the cartridge used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 true, but the wording i'm mentioning is about having something that's illegal in esp get into the division because the gun was legal in ssp. basically how we had to shoot a ssp legal gun in esp, without the full advantage of the esp rules when shooting a sp01. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickDoyle Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 seems like it would be to me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 So would a 2011 with a full dust cover be legal in ESP? Specifically a Briley signature series 5in 2011, provided it fits in the box and has a bushing barrel. From what I have read I believe it is legal for ESP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, GMB said: So would a 2011 with a full dust cover be legal in ESP? Specifically a Briley signature series 5in 2011, provided it fits in the box and has a bushing barrel. From what I have read I believe it is legal for ESP. Yes it would. Provided the slide isn't all milled up USPSA style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) Just how it comes from Briley. Link with pics. http://www.brileypd.com/signatureseries.html Well it's a mute point. Because of the "panel" cuts the gun is not ESP legal unless at least 2000 a year are produced. So if Springfield, S&W or Glock do it, it's ok and now I know why so many call it IDP-GAY!!!!! I get that it wouldn't be SSP legal but not ESP, common IDPA give me a break. So looks like some of the STI's may not be legal if they are not producing and selling 2000 of a given model a year. Edited May 18, 2017 by buller01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 So STI DVC is ESP legal and the Briley is not. WOW, is STI really selling 2000 of these a year???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 First I find no reference to 2000 unit's in the rule book. If a DVC is legal, I want to shoot at Brazos gun with a bushing barrel. How is it really different then a DVC? http://www.brazoscustom.com/Home.htm I'm taking the SO class in a couple of weeks, I plan to ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Please do and let us know how that goes. Roberto Ray is whom I got the information from, for what that's worth. I totally agree, if a DVC is legal then why not the Briley or Brazos. Hope everyone jumps on this one. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 8.2.1 mentions the 2,000 for ssp as a minimum annual production. which is different than sales. and it is the only mention of "2,000" anywhere in the rule book when you do a keyword search. For esp is your gun semi automatic, 9mm or greater, less than 43.0 oz with the heaviest mag in it, and fit in the prescribed size box? Well then you're good. Unless you've disabled the slide stop, have slide cuts beyond the ones allowed in the rule book or whatever they're worried about with the trigger shoe. Oh, and this in 8.1.8 of not allowed in any division unless otherwise stated for that specific division's rules Heavy and/or cone style barrels without a barrel bushing except as allowed in ESP, CCP, BUG and CDP divisions with length restrictions. Which for ESP is 8.2.2.2.T for an allowed: Heavy or cone style barrels on firearms with barrel lengths of 4.25” or less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) Here is the link I previously provided. http://www.brileypd.com/signatureseries.html Would love to hear the input from everyone here. Would not the cuts in the DVC be illegal?? This one is really confusing me. A DVC gun was used at Nationals with no issues as previously stated here. So why then Roberto Ray contradict himself, was he not aware of the ruling at nationals with the shooter using the DVC?? Edited May 18, 2017 by buller01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 I'm pretty sure I shot an illegal gun once at IDPA nats, so it does happen. Note, I didn't do so maliciously I just looked at it after the fact and realized I probably made a mistake. To me, I'd say the 5" one you linked to if it fits in the box and makes weight it should be good to go for esp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 That's what I thought. You should have a nice talk with Roberto at HQ Rowdy. LOL I just find the reasoning it is not legal to be BS. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 45 minutes ago, rowdyb said: 8.2.1 mentions the 2,000 for ssp as a minimum annual production. which is different than sales. and it is the only mention of "2,000" anywhere in the rule book when you do a keyword search. For esp is your gun semi automatic, 9mm or greater, less than 43.0 oz with the heaviest mag in it, and fit in the prescribed size box? Well then you're good. Unless you've disabled the slide stop, have slide cuts beyond the ones allowed in the rule book or whatever they're worried about with the trigger shoe. Oh, and this in 8.1.8 of not allowed in any division unless otherwise stated for that specific division's rules Heavy and/or cone style barrels without a barrel bushing except as allowed in ESP, CCP, BUG and CDP divisions with length restrictions. Which for ESP is 8.2.2.2.T for an allowed: Heavy or cone style barrels on firearms with barrel lengths of 4.25” or less I think I forgot the comma when I searched for 2,000.... The heavy barrel is another can of worms, if the X5 has a "Bull" barrel that is heavier than a standard 320 barrel how is that not a "heavy" barrel and now legal? And again if that is legal why can't a 1911 have a "Bull" barrel?" I think the rules are just suggestions really, and when a gun comes alone that they feel should be legal it will be. Personally I feel like ESP should just be fit box, under weight and you're good. Bull barrel, brass magwell chop up the slide, what ever you need to hit 43 oz. As long as it remains 10 rounds and the scoring stays the same those mods wont really have effect on the out come of the match. But at least I'll get to shoot a cool gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) If the two guns posted by V1911 are ESP LEGAL why not a Briley gun???? Edited May 18, 2017 by buller01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 No one is saying the Briley is illegal. The slide milling is very subdued. I'd go out on a limb and say you'd be ok with it. But it wouldn't hurt to ask your AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) Roberto Ray said it was a no go. Does he have the final word???? Sure hope not. Edited May 19, 2017 by buller01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 42 minutes ago, GMB said: Roberto Ray said it was a no go. Does he have the final word???? Sure hope not. Been around IDPA for ten years and I've never seen him contradicted by others on high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Very interesting......makes be rethink a few things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Well at least I can shoot my Accu Shadow in esp now, with a mag well no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 45 minutes ago, rowdyb said: Well at least I can shoot my Accu Shadow in esp now, with a mag well no less. You gotta shave any weight? I think my shadows only have about an half an ounce to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, GMB said: Roberto Ray said it was a no go. Does he have the final word???? Sure hope not. The Briley is 100% IDPA ESP legal because the Cuts are from the MFG (Briley is a MFG). Yes they use STI frames/slides but still a MFG no less. It is no different than the S&W cut up 1911's. It's probably the only Edge type gun currently legal because it has a bushing barrel. If you take a regular edge and throw a bushing barrel in it you would have an IDPA legal gun also. The 2,000/20,000 rule is an SSP rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, B_RAD said: You gotta shave any weight? I think my shadows only have about an half an ounce to spare. My accu with aluminum grips and mag well come in a hair under 43 with the magazines with aluminum floor plates. I really mean a hair because it's damn close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Someone tell Roberto that.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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