robomanusa Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 (edited) Here it is, how did I do, go easy on me... http://www.ohiouspsa.com/test_stage_3.pdf link updated to current version Edited June 27, 2005 by robomanusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Are there any mag changes required? Target layout is nice. I would add hardcover on 1 out of each 3 paper targets. Just my 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscron2000 Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 The more I look at it, the more I like it. The urge to go FAST is there, and so is the crash and burn factor. I think with the new rules, Box A is really 4 fault lines. "From within fault lines..." RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Violates the rules under 1.2.1. It's a "Long Course", but requires more than 9 rounds from one position (1.2.1.3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 yep...illegal...no more than 9 from any one position (and, I would only design 8 from a position) Nice try...rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Yeah, it violates the rules above level 1, but I would use it at the club level if the intent is hoser stuff with a high round count in a confined space. It's revolver friendly, the 10 round guys can break the targets into three arrays and do their reloads accordingly. Limited and open guys can just go nuts. If you want to level the playing field between hi-cap and 10 rounders you could define three arrays and require mandatory reloads. Removing a popper from each side would be nice for the 10 round shooters. Just depends on what you want to test and what your market wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 It's revolver friendly,<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Man, you must have a *totally* different definition for revolver friendly than I do (ie, no more than 6 shots from any position, or without requiring a mandatory reload) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Yeah, it violates the rules above level 1, but I would use it at the club level if ... Yikes. You would? The only reason that I would EVER set up a stage that took advantage of the Level 1 Loophole is if I were short on resources (props and manpower), extremely tight on time for some un-planned reason, or weather was so bad that we had little option. I know of matches that would run that type of stage...and I know of shooters that won't drive the hour or two to those matches because of those type of stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Good stage design but needs only a few improvements. Make A a lateral area so that the shooter can move across and that solves the problem with the rule of 9 shots maximum from one position I believe. It's a nice 6, 6, 6, 6, 6 stage. Revolvers would reload a lot, but's that's the norm. Add a few vision barriers for a larger match ( I know how hard it is to get help at a local match so the fewer probs the better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I agree about the vision barriers and the shooting area. Set the VBs up so that they form a bit of an X that requires you to shoot across to get at the poppers on the opposite side along with the paper that's right in front of you (check for shoot through issues) and have the middle array of targets be available from either side as well as the middle. You'll need a VB to make the poppers unavailable from the side that they're on (a VB in front of the left poppers on the left side and in front of the right poppers on the right side). Include some hardcover and noshoots (the middle array is perfect for getting a no shoot bordering the two lower targets' A-zones and cutting the lower A-zone on the top target in half). If you set it up like that, you get 9 rounds on each of the left and right sides and 6 more available from any of three positions. BTW, what program did you use to design it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 It's not bad if box A is ten feet wide and there are two walls in front of it so you can shoot left, middle, and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 I will eventually make a legal stage, it was my first try. Gorilla, I used a mix between MS word and Adobe 7.0, no special program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Flex: You know we are on the same page, but I was trying to be nice. Personally, I wouldn't walk across the street let alone drive any distance to shoot the COF. Nor would I set it up locally. But, if his crowd wants a high round count hose fest in a limited space, I would shut up and shoot. We both know that stage would be a hit in some clubs and I ass/u/me he is designing for his local market so-to-speak. Xre: By wheelgun friendly, I mean it's easy to break down into six shot arrays. Course designers don't cater to a wheelgunner and the wheelies don't expect it. But it's a bonus when the reloads are a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Flex:You know we are on the same page, but I was trying to be nice. Personally, I wouldn't walk across the street let alone drive any distance to shoot the COF. Nor would I set it up locally. But, if his crowd wants a high round count hose fest in a limited space, I would shut up and shoot. We both know that stage would be a hit in some clubs and I ass/u/me he is designing for his local market so-to-speak. Xre: By wheelgun friendly, I mean it's easy to break down into six shot arrays. Course designers don't cater to a wheelgunner and the wheelies don't expect it. But it's a bonus when the reloads are a no brainer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was infact trying to get it broke into 6shot arrays...hehe the PP's I had in my head should be placed about 20-25yds out. I have no crowd or a local market, I just like to shoot. I wasnt out to create a stage to be used in the nationals, LMAO. Just wanted to try my hand at a stage design and felt like putting it up to see what others thought and might could lend a few pointers. I also didnt want to design a stage with just 3 or 4 targets and say here ya go, looky what I just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 So outside of the legal issues the stage looks ok (I know - that's like asking Mrs. Lincoln how she liked the play but bare with me here) I'm kind of like the others, I wouldn't love shooting it. If I were an open shooter I'd enjoy it, nothing like hosing down a bunch of targets! I do think the frustration factor for none open, or worse yet open shooters without a big stick, would be fairly high. Limited shooters probably wouldn't bitch too much because it meant one load - and revo or Lim-10 shooters would deal. To make it a great stage though I agree with all the above. Some slight tweaks would accomplish both what you want as well as what many shooters would enjoy. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 If you want to level the playing field between hi-cap and 10 rounders you could define three arrays and require mandatory reloads. Why do some stage designers want to "level the playing field" between divisions that aren't competing against each other? Implementing some vision barriers and a larger shooting box is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 (edited) Ok, I think I now have a legal version that makes all divisions work for it, the only problem I see with my new one is the open shooters might have a chance of getting whipped up on by a revo shooter....LMAO http://www.ohiouspsa.com/test_stage_3.pdf link updated to current version Edited June 27, 2005 by robomanusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Robomanusa, I just figured out who you were. We were in the same squad together for the classifier match in April at MR&P in the rain. I was the guy last Sunday that had on the orange shirt and talked to you several times. That was a good time on Sunday. I have yet to attempt to design any stages but probably will eventually. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Why do some stage designers want to "level the playing field" between divisions that aren't competing against each other? In this particular case I am simply suggesting bringing the course design more into alignment with the rulebook by defining arrays and requiring reloads. Getting rid of a couple of poppers would give the 10 round guys and gals a couple of misses without doing a standing reload to makeup a shot followed by a mandatory reload. Even then, the course wouldn't meet the definition of a standard exercise. But at least the exclusion for level one matches wouldn't be overly abused. Now to answer your question in a broader sense. By leveling the playing field I am speaking of designing a course of fire that can be completed in a fluid fashion by 10 round shooters as well as hi-cap shooters (sorry revolver guys). For instance, when I design a long field course I want to test a multitude of skills, but I also want shooters to be able to shoot the entire course in a fluid manner without interuptions. I'll give a 10 round shooter multiple choices of where to make a reload without reguiring him/her to make an unreasonable number of reloads to avoid a standing reload. I also give the 10 round shooters a couple of spare rounds to make up misses without trashing their game plan. Unfortunately, a lot of shooters just don't understand good course design. They recognize a really great course of fire after they shoot it, but even then many don't know why the course was "great" nor do they understand the thought process that goes into the design work. The rulebook attempts to intervene on behalf of good course design by defining maximum number of rounds fired from any position, freestyle requirements, etc. The rules set the framework for a fluid and fun course. Unfortunately, many courses still end up being herky jerk hose fests running from here to there. As for this thread, I think my position is pretty clear. I was just trying to be polite and offer some encouragment without being too critical. Mr. Tough Love yanked my chain with "yikes you would" and now the truth comes out. If you really want to get me on a roll, ask how I feel about the attitude of "this will slow them down". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 Robomanusa, I just figured out who you were. We were in the same squad together for the classifier match in April at MR&P in the rain. I was the guy last Sunday that had on the orange shirt and talked to you several times. That was a good time on Sunday. I have yet to attempt to design any stages but probably will eventually. Flyin40 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi John, That classifier match sucked, I was so cold and shivering it wasnt funny, I dont have any extra frost protection on me nowhere... Yeah Sundays match was great, we had a great squad, had some really nice long stages which gave me plenty of reloading practice on the revo which I dont mind. The more shooting the better. I dont think I left the range until about 3:30 trying to help get things put up, it was a long day. Go ahead and try a stage design, Im having no luck with it .... I best just stick to shooting and server-side scripting languages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Nick: Oh no, don't give up. Designing a killer stage is really gratifying. If you want to ty your hand at course design the CRO class does a great job of covering the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty45 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Roboman, I'm with you--set it up and let's shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Ron, Don't mind me. I was just giving Nick (Roboman) an extra pile of crap (he is one of my Ohio crew ) Nick, keep the stages coming. Don't get discouraged. It is super tough to come up with stages that are rule-proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 Ron and Kyle, No I won't give up. Hi Phil, Thanks, hey man...CONGRATS on the Kentucky State win, that is awsome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 BTW...I'd love to see more Ohio shooters designing stages. (Nick, John, Phil...) We all benefit from the variety. I am always happy when somebody send me a stage. And,I am more than willing to help tweak them to get them text-book perfect (so that the only complaining somebody can do is about their own shooting I tweak a LOT better than I design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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