PCC guns

[rooster mcbee]

I'd like to start competing in PCC, but I don't own a 9mm carbine.  So if I'm going to buy one, What should I get?  The local gun store has 2-3 different ones, but they don't look to "racy" to me.  What's the hot set-up?  What should I look for to be competitive?  Thanks, Doug

[Sarge]

There are pretty extensive threads already on this. Of course, there are a dozen opinions on the got set up. Somebody will swear by  $1500 JP with an $800 optic while others use the just right carbines for $600.

I have too much money in Open guns to go nuts with a "hey this might be fun this weekend", gun. So I kept it simple, and cheap.

[pyrrhic3gun]

If you are only going to shoot Steel Challenge (since you posted in the S/C thread) and don't need fast reloads, then anything with a decent trigger and mags available would work.  If you are also going to try USPSA then you need a design that allows faster mag changes.  I tried my Marlin Camp9 last weekend and the mag release position hurt my time.  A MechTech top end might be a fairly cheap solution.  And of course, the AR variants will work. 

[photoracer]

I came to similar conclusions when I decided to do PCC. Once SC started allowing the division and adding the local USPSA steel and outlaw steel matches it became a no brainer. I looked at the entire span of pricing and performance in 9mm carbines and decided #1 that it had to use Glock mags because I have a G34 and G17, #2 I wanted something good enough to shoot SC in so I felt that most of the cheaper solutions may or may not have the reliability I wanted, and #3 I could not afford a Sig, HK, or even a JP. So I decided to use my own AR assembly skills to build one myself. I knew what I wanted it to do and what kind of look I wanted to achieve and I think I hit that on the head. 2 SC events and I made Master in PCCO, coming up fast on GM. I used my RFRO skills modified for the heavier PCC and now they are both less than 2% apart. And I get a lot of fun out of shooting non-SC events with it also. So much so that I am neglecting my pistol shooting even more. With PNTC in the SC fold and doing monthly 8-stage matches starting in November I plan in 2017 to rotate my firearms so I can get classified in every division in SC.

[Rangerdug]

Doug, the JP GMR 13 and Sig MPX. The JP is good out of the box. The Sig requires a trigger. The advantage of the MPX is recoil. The MPX is soft shooting. Mine doesn't like anything over 124gr.
The GMR will run the 147gr but I find shot timers won't always pick up the shot.
As for optics it doesn't require an $800 optic, I wouldn't go get one from Walmart. Any decent red dot will do. Aim point, Vortex, SIG, Trijicon, C-more, or like works.


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[Tdizle]

I made GM with a stock Palmetto State Armory PAx9. It's the 9mm Glock mag billet lower. Standard GI AR trigger, buffer and spring. Nothing special except for a Trijicon Reflex optic. You don't need anything real trick, just need to shoot it well. 

[stango424]

I use a mechtech with a Cmore railway attached and that has been sufficient for low 80's scores. If you have a glock, 1911, or XD then that is going to be the cheapest way to get into pcc. Around $400 dollars for the upper then add your own stock and you are all set. 

[jrn1975]

I just bought a sig mpx.  It seems to be a great gun.  Recoil is supper soft and it has been 100% reliable.  I haven't had a chance to run it in a match but it has performed great in practice.

[jkrispies]

I don't have any real experience with PCC, so I should keep my mouth shut as nothimg more than an armchair general at this point, but I did do a fair amount of research into PCC before Kalifornia pissed on my plans.  Look at Quarter Circle 10; if this state gets it's act together, I'll build something using the QC10 system with my preference of furniture and trigger installed.  They are Glock mag friendly and seem to have gone through some excellent design and testing.  Having exchanged quite a few emails with them, I can say that QC10 has excellent customer service-- for instance, they tested their system with the HyperFire 24C trigger simply because I asked.

[Rangerdug]

I don't have any real experience with PCC, so I should keep my mouth shut as nothimg more than an armchair general at this point, but I did do a fair amount of research into PCC before Kalifornia pissed on my plans.  Look at Quarter Circle 10; if this state gets it's act together, I'll build something using the QC10 system with my preference of furniture and trigger installed.  They are Glock mag friendly and seem to have gone through some excellent design and testing.  Having exchanged quite a few emails with them, I can say that QC10 has excellent customer service-- for instance, they tested their system with the HyperFire 24C trigger simply because I asked.

I hate to say it, but would any company not say their gun tested flawlessly. Don't get me wrong the pictures of C10 stuff is nice, but can't say I know anyone who has shot, let alone owns one.
That being said, I think the Glock mag AR's are the way to go, that is the MPX aside.


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[jkrispies]

1 hour ago, Rangerdug said:

I hate to say it, but would any company not say their gun tested flawlessly. Don't get me wrong the pictures of C10 stuff is nice, but can't say I know anyone who has shot, let alone owns one.
That being said, I think the Glock mag AR's are the way to go, that is the MPX aside.


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While I don't disagree with the point you're making, I think my coorspondence with QC10 was legitimate.  When I asked if the 24c trigger would work in their gun (as other companies report it doesn't), the conversation went along the lines of "We don't know because we haven't tested it, but we have a Hyperfire on order to try out," and we exchanged a few emails about information that we knew which might cause issues with the Hyperfire trigger as some other platforms have experienced.  As I recall, the Hyperfire trigger they initially had ordered before my contact with them was the least expensive trigger that Hyperfire makes.  A few weeks later they came back and reported that the tests went well, and they were going to try the 24c next.  A few weeks (or months...) after that, they emailed me out of nowhere and said that the 24c tests were successful.  The fact that they kept me in the loop, rather than just forgetting about this yahoo that emailed them out of nowhere, speaks volumes about their customer service.  And, frankly, they just seem to me like folks who are passionate about putting out a top notch product.

Edited September 11, 2016 by jkrispies

[Rangerdug]

While I don't disagree with the point you're making, I think my coorspondence with QC10 was legitimate.  When I asked if the 24c trigger would work in their gun (as other companies report it doesn't), the conversation went along the lines of "We don't know because we haven't tested it, but we have a Hyperfire on order to try out," and we exchanged a few emails about information that we knew which might cause issues with the Hyperfire trigger as some other platforms have experienced.  As I recall, the Hyperfire trigger they initially had ordered before my contact with them was the least expensive trigger that Hyperfire makes.  A few weeks later they came back and reported that the tests went well, and they were going to try the 24c next.  A few weeks (or months...) after that, they emailed me out of nowhere and said that the 24c tests were successful.  The fact that they kept me in the loop, rather than just forgetting about this yahoo that emailed them out of nowhere, speaks volumes about their customer service.  And, frankly, they just seem to me like folks who are passionate about putting out a top notch product.

I can appreciate their great customer service, but does that really quantify the quality of their product?
How, does it run different types of ammo?
How, does it group?(JP guarantees 3moa... That I can actually verify)
How, is the trigger? Do I need to go buy a $200 trigger to make it run?
Again my point is, that you don't know. I don't know. Do we know anyone who does? Emails and phone calls don't prove anything.




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[jkrispies]

22 hours ago, Rangerdug said:

I can appreciate their great customer service, but does that really quantify the quality of their product?
How, does it run different types of ammo?
How, does it group?(JP guarantees 3moa... That I can actually verify)
How, is the trigger? Do I need to go buy a $200 trigger to make it run?
Again my point is, that you don't know. I don't know. Do we know anyone who does? Emails and phone calls don't prove anything.




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You're correct that you or I don't know the answers to those questions, and I have to say that I'm willing to take a leap of faith and sorta don't care.

Does their customer service quantify the quality of their product?  No, but it does give me insight into the runnings of their company, which is a very good sign.

How does it run different types of ammo?  I don't know.  What I do know is that I test all of my guns, and I load to the gun.

How does it group?  Since USPSA and Steel Challenge only shoot about 35 yards, I'm really not concerned about that-- these distances are short enough for me to shoot them with a 1911 and a Glock, so I'm fairly certain that as long as the barrel isn't bent, I can make it work with any carbine, name your manufacturer.

Does it need a $200 trigger?  For me, yes-- a Hyperfire 24c.  As I mentioned in my original posting, I'd use QC10 receivers and barrel to build my own gun using my prefered trigger and furniture.  This will give me a gun with the feel and swing that I want.  So, yeah, I seriously don't care what trigger QC10 uses, because I'll be using my own trigger.  And, as mentioned before, I'm confident it will run because QC10 tested it for me.

Ultimately, the JP is a fantastic gun, as is the MPX.  If that's the gun anybody wants to buy, I doubt that they'll be disappointed.  However, if I have a PCC, I want it to mirror my TacOps rifle as closely as I can.  That means with the JP, I'd have to buy the stock rifle parts only to swap them out for different parts down the road.  And, per JP, the JP13 won't work with the Hyperfire 24C that I use in my TacOps rifle; I know because I've asked, and I appreciate their feedback to me.  Regarding the MPX, it uses Sig proprietary parts, particularly on the forearm:  in many respects, what you see with the MPX is what you get.  

To repeat again from my original post:  "I'll build something using the QC10 system with my preference of furniture and trigger installed."  If you want to buy an off-the-rack firearm, great, go with JP, Sig, or whoever.  I shoot guns that I've built to my specs, with the parts I want.  QC10 can provide me with the base parts I need to begin my build, and I'll finish it with the equipment from other manufacturers.

[konkapot]

Been training for PCC for about 3500 rounds now; I'm voting for the CZ Scorpion. Mags are cheap and available, the ergos are good for me, and the gun just runs and runs and runs. 

Trigger is sub-par, but has gotten a little bit better with use. 

[Rangerdug]

How does it group?  Since USPSA and Steel Challenge only shoot about 35 yards, I'm really not concerned about that-- these distances are short enough for me to shoot them with a 1911 and a Glock, so I'm fairly certain that as long as the barrel isn't bent, I can make it work with any carbine, name your manufacturer.

I can again agree with most of that.

But going off what you said originally, you haven't started building one, and according to that, you are a long way off (California).

Again, only looking at Circle 10(to be clear, I am not saying that they are good or bad) goes back to what we said. Good Intentions mean nothing, actions mean everything.

Speaking on ammo, if I know a gun won't run; let's say with 147 (like the MPX), I'm not going to buy it to find out that it doesn't run 147. But that does impact how I reload. It effects how I buy ammo.

As for accuracy, the idea it doesn't matter because we are only shooting 35yd, is frankly baloney. Especially in a sport where accuracy does count. As it pertains loosely, you mentioned you shoot 3GN, I doubt you run an AK (Why?) or more realistically a M&P 15 sport.

(Probably the same reason why you don't see many Hi-Points at matches, but I will say they have incredible customer service, seriously they have an incredible warranty!)

Accuracy does matter in PCC as all areas of USPSA. As competitive shooters we do expect a gun to preform to a high standard. That is why SVI can charge so much and people will pay it. There is no way that any competitive shooter is going to be content with a gun that won't hold point aim point impact at 15 yards.

Now, that all being said; you are right, you can make your decisions. That has never been at question.

The scrutiny is based on you recommended a product. And as not to beat a dead horse, it brings the myriad of questions as already covered. That's my point. No more, no less.

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[ZackJones]

I shot Mike Foley's JP at WSSC and now that's what I want. My Just Right Carbine is more than adequate for the task but I won't be happy until I have a JP which will probably be what Santa brings me this year.

 

[mreed911]

I'm not willing to spend money on a new gun just for PCC so I'm running my Storm which uses CX4 magazines.

I'm either going to have to look at the insert for the 92/96 mags and buying a few of the larger ones or getting someone to custom-make me something larger than the 20rd Beretta sells (their 17rd with already-attached 3rd extensions).  For now, it's not a huge problem.  There's not a lot of stages where I can't find time for one reload on the move.

Edited September 12, 2016 by mreed911

[Rangerdug]

I'm not willing to spend money on a new gun just for PCC so I'm running my Storm which uses CX4 magazines.

I'm either going to have to look at the insert for the 92/96 mags and buying a few of the larger ones or getting someone to custom-make me something larger than the 20rd Beretta sells (their 17rd with already-attached 3rd extensions).  For now, it's not a huge problem.  There's not a lot of stages where I can't find time for one reload on the move.

The Storm extended mags (92 mags) are really cheap. Just bought 6 of them, for my wife.
The only issue I have with the Storm is the trigger sucks, going to have to find a way to soften it just a bit.
I wish you could also remove the front and rear sight post shrouds.


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[mreed911]

Check out Sierra Papa.  http://sierrapapacx4.com/index/

WRT the trigger, here's his outlook (I haven't spent the money on these parts yet): http://sierrapapacx4.com/interaction-of-the-hammer-trigger-and-hammer-spring-modifications

[Rangerdug]

Check out Sierra Papa.  http://sierrapapacx4.com/index/

WRT the trigger, here's his outlook (I haven't spent the money on these parts yet): http://sierrapapacx4.com/interaction-of-the-hammer-trigger-and-hammer-spring-modifications

Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for.


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[fosters3]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:15 PM, ZackJones said:

I shot Mike Foley's JP at WSSC and now that's what I want. My Just Right Carbine is more than adequate for the task but I won't be happy until I have a JP which will probably be what Santa brings me this year.

 

Thanks Zack Jones for helping me spend my $$!

Steve

[ZackJones]

Thanks Zack Jones for helping me spend my $$!

Where's mine?

[fosters3]

Just now, ZackJones said:

Where's mine?

Let me get mine first

 

[fosters3]

Just now, fosters3 said:

Let me get mine first

 

I will be sporting it in SC, at least this is the rumor!