New bullet seating issue using hundo case gauge

[KindredGhost]

Hey Fellas... So I'm having an issue with my undo case gauge  on my xl650... 

I reload for several guns using the same caliber, but at different oal's That said, I have 2 tool heads with the same caliber, but one of them is setup to load at a longer oal for my 2011.

The toolhead that I use to load at shorter oal's has lee dies in it. Last week when I seated them in my hundo 100 round case gauge, they weren't all seating(see the attached picture). I took out the resize/decap die and put it back in. This didn't fix the issue. So i ordered the egw undersized/decap die. Issue still persists. Today I went to my LGS and bought the dillon dies, put them in, and the issue still persists.

Now I'm just super annoyed.

I took the 9mm dies off of my other toolhead, and put the NEW 40sw dies in and it's still problematic.

Just to confirm I'm not going nuts, I loaded some bullets using the other toolhead (for the 2011) that works fine, and sure enough... it works EXACTLY the way it should (see the other picture). All the bullets I pressed seated beautifully in the hundo case gauge... *sans that one bullet i short stroked where the primer is sticking up, but disregard that.)

What in the world is going on?

Full disclosure, even though it looks atrocious, ALL the bullets ACTUALLY FULLY SEAT in the Dillon single case gauge. I prefer to use the hundo case gauge because I don't have as much time as I'd like.

Cliffs Notes Recap
Things I've done to try and fix the issue:
1. Removed and reseated the Lee resize/decap die.
2. Replaed the Lee die with an egw undersize die.
3. Replaced all the Lee dies with dillon dies.
4. Replaced the toolhead for a different one (from my 9mm toolhead)
5. Swapped out the resize/decap die from my 2011 tool head... and issue persists.
6. Started drinking hard alcohol, because I have no idea what's going on.

Specs on the toolhead for short oal
OAL ~ 1.133 - 1.141
Crimp ~ .221 - .228

Specs on the the toolhead for my 2011 (which works 100% of the time)
OAL ~ 1.178 - 1.185
Crimp ~ .221 - .228

[Tom Freeman]

Does all the ammo function in your pistols?

[Yeti]

Which Shockbottle CG are you using?  Just the standard or do you have a 40L or 40XL?

[tkheard]

I had exactly your problem on my 650. Turned out the crimp die had backed out just a little. I reset it and recrimped about 500 rounds. Works like a champ now.

[KindredGhost]

Hey fellas!

 

It's the standard size sick bottle case gauge. It does function in my cz tactical sport, but I get a fail to feed on occasion (about 1 every 300).  I don't shoot the bullets from this tool head for my 2011 as it requires a longer oal for my formula, and am yet to shoot it from my xdm and USP. 

But anyway tkheard, do you think I should remove the crimp die for testing? Or should I just back it out and readjust for crimp?  

A buddy of mine also recommended I reseat the resize decap die by raising the shell plate, screwing the die die down until it touches the shell plate, lower the shell plate and further adjust the die down 1\4 turn more. He said if it doesn't feel right to back the die up a tiny bit at a time. 

It sounds right, but again, I'm pretty new to reloading. 

What do you guys think?

Kg

Edited September 5, 2016 by KindredGhost
Typos

[Brooke]

Here's my take on it. Tens of thousands of users are making cartridges on Dillon reloaders without the problems you have. Not as many, but a lot including me, are using the 100 hole Shockbottle gauges with success. So the problem is something you are doing.

Adjust the resize/decap die as per the Dillon instructions. Lower until it touches the shell plate and back off very slightly (I think it says a 1/8 turn, but whatever it says do it). It works, trust me.

Get out your calipers and measure the finished cartridges at several places down the length. Do both those that pass and those that fail. Once you know where the failure occurs you can determine where the problem is and what influences it. 

If you do not lube the casings, you can bulge the case right at the head due to the friction of the die on the case.....lube!

If you are not crimping successfully (measure the finished cartridge right at the mouth) it should be no more than 0.012 over he bullet diameter. Either adjust your Dillon crimp die or go to a Lee Factory crimp die. The Dillon die will work. I switched to Lee FCD because it worked even better.

Most importantly, follow Dillon's setup instructions, and don't blame your press or your dies, or your gauge. Measure stuff and find your problem. This stuff does work so any problem is something that you are doing wrong. Ignore suggestions that defy logic, like running the sizing die down too far. That is just an interference. There is no give in the shell plate and sizing die interface. You cannot run the die down beyond touching without a problem.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Brooke

[biglou13]

What headstamps are you seeing failure with?

is failure more prevalent with shorter oal?

do you have same issues loading virgin brass?

did the shorter oal rounds ever have a high success rate?

is your case gauge clean?

trying blowing case gauge....... Then retest

ive found some gauges are tighter than others.     

 

[rooster]

Try resizing your case, then put the case in your case gauge, if your case fits in the gauge you then know it has to be one of your other steps.  I had this happen to me where a loaded round would pass the hundo gauge, but would not pass the EGW gauge.  Turned out it was the bullet.  The ogive of the bullet was touching in the EGW gauge.  I proved it by sanding the ogive down a little then it would fit the EGW gauge.

[The Donald]

What bullets are you reloading with? Many of your coated bullets have issues in ALL case gauges. Shockbottle gives a little extra clearance to allow for coated bullets.

[KindredGhost]

51 minutes ago, The Donald said:

What bullets are you reloading with? Many of your coated bullets have issues in ALL case gauges. Shockbottle gives a little extra clearance to allow for coated bullets.

180 gr. Rnfp Xtreme bullets. They are plated. 

 

Kg

[Phlier]

2nd picture, 6th row down, 4th from the left..  a bit of a high primer poking out there.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Phlier

[theWacoKid]

The closer you get your resize die to the shell plate the more rounds you will have pass the case gauge.  The Lee U-Die is a great die. Other than that make sure you are crimping enough to get the bell smoothed out. And if possible, reduce bell in the first place. G'luck. 

[BeerBaron]

firstly I doubt the lee dies were the issue. it's likely a combination of the shorter OAL creating a slight bulge that hangs in the gauge.

simple test. take one of the rounds that fails the gauge. colour it up basically all over with a sharpie. put it back in the gauge and pull it out. see where the sharpie has been rubbed off. that should give an idea what is making them hang up in the gauge.

plated bullets do tend to be a little oversize vs jacketed. this can create a little bulge when seated deeper. you don't want to crimp more as it will start swaging down the bullet which will hurt accuracy. 

personally i get better results with the lee dies over the dillon. 

[KindredGhost]

Issue resolved fellas!  

Turns out it was CRIMP!!!  I took some bullets I pressed to my pro shop along with my tool head and hundo case gauge.  He looked at it, resized it, and sure enough... it seats properly now!  

Thanks for the assistance guys!

-kg