davsco Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 PCC 5.2.3.3 Un-cased pistol caliber carbines must be carried shouldered or slung from the shoulder or held in the hands with the firearm reasonably vertical. I don't get the "shouldered" option? Not sure I want to see folks walking around with shouldered carbines. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. PCC 5.2.3.5 Transporting pistol caliber carbines from the staging area to the start position and back from where the shooter unloads and shows clear, the gun must be carried muzzle vertically upwards with the bolt locked open or closed on a chamber safety flag. Not sure i like the "bolt locked open" option. Why not just have chamber flag in all instances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uod Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I don't get the "shouldered" option? Not sure I want to see folks walking around with shouldered carbines. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I take this to mean something to the effect of carrying it against your shoulder, muzzle up. But, who knows. I was a little confused by this part as well. Not sure i like the "bolt locked open" option. Why not just have chamber flag in all instances? Agreed. It should just be chamber flag across the board. It's much easier to see a flag than it is to see the bolt locked open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1911 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 PCC 5.2.3.3 Un-cased pistol caliber carbines must be carried shouldered or slung from the shoulder or held in the hands with the firearm reasonably vertical. I don't get the "shouldered" option? Not sure I want to see folks walking around with shouldered carbines. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I assume that means carried on your shoulder using a sling, with the muzzle up. But the language isn't clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernelofwisdom Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So generally the weapon doesn't have to be fired from the shoulder, but if specified WHO or SHO then it does have to be shouldered to the applicable shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 PCC 5.2.3.3 Un-cased pistol caliber carbines must be carried shouldered or slung from the shoulder or held in the hands with the firearm reasonably vertical. I don't get the "shouldered" option? Not sure I want to see folks walking around with shouldered carbines. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I assume that means carried on your shoulder using a sling, with the muzzle up. But the language isn't clear. You weren't in the military, were you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 PCC 5.2.3.3 Un-cased pistol caliber carbines must be carried shouldered or slung from the shoulder or held in the hands with the firearm reasonably vertical. I don't get the "shouldered" option? Not sure I want to see folks walking around with shouldered carbines. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I assume that means carried on your shoulder using a sling, with the muzzle up. But the language isn't clear. You weren't in the military, were you? So clue us civilians on what that means in the military, please. I was thinking that "shouldered" for carry means "slung from the shoulder, by a sling", but what the hey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 PCC 5.2.3.3 Un-cased pistol caliber carbines must be carried shouldered or slung from the shoulder or held in the hands with the firearm reasonably vertical. I don't get the "shouldered" option? Not sure I want to see folks walking around with shouldered carbines. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I assume that means carried on your shoulder using a sling, with the muzzle up. But the language isn't clear. You weren't in the military, were you? So clue us civilians on what that means in the military, please. I was thinking that "shouldered" for carry means "slung from the shoulder, by a sling", but what the hey... The way I see it sling use is covered by "slung". Shouldered is what you will see in the parade on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 PCC 5.2.3.3 Un-cased pistol caliber carbines must be carried shouldered or slung from the shoulder or held in the hands with the firearm reasonably vertical. I don't get the "shouldered" option? Not sure I want to see folks walking around with shouldered carbines. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I assume that means carried on your shoulder using a sling, with the muzzle up. But the language isn't clear. You weren't in the military, were you? So clue us civilians on what that means in the military, please. I was thinking that "shouldered" for carry means "slung from the shoulder, by a sling", but what the hey... The way I see it sling use is covered by "slung". Shouldered is what you will see in the parade on Monday. Aah, more new vocabulary every day. That makes sense. We'd have to add some defs to the Glossary, though, for those without the requisite background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What's next? The manual of arms? That would prove interesting if included into the COF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What's next? The manual of arms? That would prove interesting if included into the COF Just so there is no running at high port, I will be OK. Actually, shoulder carry will help avoid issues with the second part of: PCC 10.5.2.1 Failing to point the muzzle at a side berm or back stop during casing or uncasing, or sweeping any person with the muzzle of a PCC, whether loaded or not, even if a chamber flag is inserted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Did I miss the clarifications of PCC-modified start positions, particularly surrender or uprange starts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangerdug Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 It will be good to have some rules from HQ, so we aren't making it up as we go along. Many good ideas here, but even the classifiers that are being shot now are all being done differently. I was at a match where there was a freestyle/strong hand, freestyle/weak hand. I have no idea how it was shot. Was the strong/weak hand done with only one hand on the rifle? Was it done by moving the rifle to the weak hand shoulder and still used both hands? I have no idea. Don't overthink it! Yes you shoot one from your dominant (strong) side. And one from your non dominant (weak) side. Yes you can shoot it shouldered with one hand. It ain't as easy as you would think. Regardless moving any gun from strong to weak requires two hands. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So I just got an email from uspsa that said that current classifier written stage briefings on the webpage are updated to show the pcc stuff... I went and looked at classifier list page and I don't see the updated course descriptions? Does anyone have a link to the amended course descriptions. (I was particularly interested in 99-07, 99-21, 99-11) Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uod Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So I just got an email from uspsa that said that current classifier written stage briefings on the webpage are updated to show the pcc stuff... I went and looked at classifier list page and I don't see the updated course descriptions? Does anyone have a link to the amended course descriptions. (I was particularly interested in 99-07, 99-21, 99-11) Thanks I've been looking for them too --- and, I can't find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) What's next? The manual of arms? That would prove interesting if included into the COF Just so there is no running at high port, I will be OK. Just remember to keep the bucket on your head. Actually, shoulder carry will help avoid issues with the second part of: PCC 10.5.2.1 Failing to point the muzzle at a side berm or back stop during casing or uncasing, or sweeping any person with the muzzle of a PCC, whether loaded or not, even if a chamber flag is inserted. Edited June 30, 2016 by Bkreutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Bam Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 They should make it a single point sling in the front, muzzle down, no hand on the carbine consider that holstered. then if you are facing up range as long as you do not touch the carbine it is holstered. Then all the same rules apply for pistol. Hands on marks, same thing. This is how we have run carbine course , just consider the sling as a holster. bc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Just remember to keep the bucket on your head. You too? Funny memories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So where are the definitions and descriptions of start positions? Supposedly all was going to be clear according to somebody posting here. The email says the classifier start positions have been updated but what about every day COF start positions? Shouldn't have to dig out a classifier description to tell somebody what is what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So where are the definitions and descriptions of start positions? Supposedly all was going to be clear according to somebody posting here. The email says the classifier start positions have been updated but what about every day COF start positions? Shouldn't have to dig out a classifier description to tell somebody what is what. http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/NCCB_4.1_2016.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uod Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) It appears to me that the equivalent of "holstered, hands relaxed at sides" is "stock on belt, muzzle pointed downrange, both hands on carbine". And up range facing start is now a down range facing start for PCC. That's what I was able to gather when reading through the classifiers. Edited June 30, 2016 by uod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Just remember to keep the bucket on your head. You too? Funny memories It was a time, long long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) It appears to me that the equivalent of "holstered, hands relaxed at sides" is "stock on belt, muzzle pointed downrange, both hands on carbine". . Default/normal start position: Facing downrange, carbine held in both hands, stock on belt or shouldered, muzzle downrange. Fingers will be out of the trigger guard, and the safety must be applied if the carbine is loaded. This equates to either “port arms” or “low ready”. NO uprange starts while holding the carbine! from pcc best practices on uspsa website https://uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2016/PCC%20Best%20Practices.pdf Edited June 30, 2016 by davsco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uod Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) from pcc best practices on uspsa website https://uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2016/PCC%20Best%20Practices.pdf Awesome --- thanks. That wasn't posted to the site earlier in the day. Glad to see they clarified some things. Edited July 1, 2016 by uod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Cool! By definition I can point the gun right at my first target with thumb on selector switch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 It appears to me that the equivalent of "holstered, hands relaxed at sides" is "stock on belt, muzzle pointed downrange, both hands on carbine". . Default/normal start position: Facing downrange, carbine held in both hands, stock on belt or shouldered, muzzle downrange. Fingers will be out of the trigger guard, and the safety must be applied if the carbine is loaded. This equates to either port arms or low ready. NO uprange starts while holding the carbine! from pcc best practices on uspsa website https://uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2016/PCC%20Best%20Practices.pdf That description does NOT equate to port arms or low ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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