Not Long Now!

[Distant Thunder]

It wasnt even the prizes per se, its things like Troy (finished 2nd overall to Doug) and Cherie (finished 2nd ladies) getting these cheap looking medals that look like low grade participation medals i got 25 years ago for club soccer when i was a kid. I would have been insulted. The plaques they handed out for 4th International were nicer. They also altered the rules to 1 award per 5 in Metallic/Production classes. No such rule existed last year, and amazingly enough, turnout in both groups was down. Production was down almost 50% in terms of shooters vs last year.

Do we have the comparison numbers between last year's competitors and this year?

[Chris1911]

I understand that income was down by over $100,000. Less money in, less money to spend. Its seems that most of the usual spending was maintained other than payouts to competitors which was reduced. Perhaps the nibbles night on Thursday or the BBQ night on Friday could have been dropped so more could have been spent as prizes? Who knows how many would bleat about that idea and how much that would have effected things? Hard to attribute the decline in competitor numbers this year to lower payouts when none of us new about the reductions before entering. The organizers may not have know how much funding they were getting until late in the piece? As to competitor numbers, I shoot Metallic and I think last year there were about 70 and this year 47. I am not certain though.

[Csbassplayer2003]

It wasnt even the prizes per se, its things like Troy (finished 2nd overall to Doug) and Cherie (finished 2nd ladies) getting these cheap looking medals that look like low grade participation medals i got 25 years ago for club soccer when i was a kid. I would have been insulted. The plaques they handed out for 4th International were nicer. They also altered the rules to 1 award per 5 in Metallic/Production classes. No such rule existed last year, and amazingly enough, turnout in both groups was down. Production was down almost 50% in terms of shooters vs last year.

Do we have the comparison numbers between last year's competitors and this year?

268 shooters finished the match in 2015 (doesnt include no shows, DQs, etc...)

114 Open shooters

59 Metallic

90 Production

2016 was 205 total (down 63)

114 Open shooters (no change)

47 Metallic (down 12, almost 20%)

44 production (down 46, over 50%)

If money was TRULY the issue, why was it taken away from the 2 groups that get the lowest amount of total prizes to begin with? The only two groups hurt by the dumb 1:5 rule were Metallic/Production. Why would they print 50th place payout when it would take 250 production shooters (an insanely unrealistic number) to cover that? I dont buy it. It is the NRA. Money is never an issue for them. Unless it is their intent to only award prizes to the people who can already shell out $5000 for an open gun.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Csbassplayer2003

[Distant Thunder]

I'm wondering if the decrease in the number of competitors had anything to do with the format change. It seems the two classes more influenced by economics were the ones affected, particularly in Production.

[Chris1911]

Thanks for sourcing those numbers Csbassplayer. Very interesting.

A few more random thoughts which may contribute nothing to the debate. The prizes at Flagler were also way down this year. Perhaps the number of production shooters last year was artificially high and unsustainable? just saying, Was the first prize for Open larger than previous years?, not that I have an issue with that as you have to reward success and it may be good for the media to see?

Yes the printed brochure was a big stuffup. You may be amused to know that the first year I went to the Cup, four years ago, I came 18th in Metallic. Went to the awards night, truly got a buzz from just being part of your National Anthem, came home and then found out I should have collected a prize. Prizes can not be collected after the awards night and I was told I should have read the brochure. Problem was the brochure arrived in New Zealand after we all left to attend. At least this year there was a list of winners names put up on the notice board.

My prize this year for coming third overall in Metallic at the Flagler was a $25 voucher from Mid South Shooters. If you send me a PM with your address I will send it to you as I am unlikely to be able to use it. Cheers.

[DWFAN]

Ron received fewer prizes this year for Flagler (and our fall regional). We've pretty much been forced to do 2 prize tables a year with less than we used to have for just one match. Past Generous donors arent as able to contribute as much as they used to be and still increase cash/performance awards beyond what they used to be.

Ron debated buying prizes, but with trying to expand the ranges and add a 2nd mover, I think putting the money back into the range is a smarter idea than buying odds and ends and trinkets that we all have too much of or see at every match. I'm not sure what he ended up doing, but I gave him my input before the match. This will benefit the shooters in the future more than a bottle of oil, or a cheap range bag.

For as little participation and popularity that Action Pistol has compared to USPSA and other sports, we're very lucky to have the sponsors that we do. Lets try to take good care of them and please remember to thank those sponsors. It may actually help when the MD goes sourcing prizes for next years matches.

Edited June 4, 2016 by DWFAN

[Alan550]

Over the past 8 years the Bianchi Cup has been through many fluctuations insofar as participation goes, with a low number of 154 shooters in 2009 to a high of 282 in 2014. A break-down of the statistics is very informative, when analyzed. The overall numbers drop from last year is 23%! Over the 7 years prior, the Cup averaged a 10% increase per year.

The number of shooters slowly increased from 154 in ‘09 to a high of 282 in ‘14. This was due, in part, to increases in Metallic & Production shooters. Metallic went from 29 in ‘09 to 68 in ‘14 with Production increasing from 28 to 90 between ‘09 & ‘15 primarily due to the fact that the NRA decided to pay prize money to the top 50 in Production with only the top 20 in Metallic & Open getting cash awards.

This year the format was changed and the reduction in shooters went like this over last year’s numbers: Overall = down>23%, Metallic = down >20%, Production = down >51%, Newcomers = down >65%, Juniors = down >41%, Women = down >25%.

International shooters dropped from a high of 61 in ‘14 to only 43 this year. Many previous US shooters’ and sponsors’ names were conspicuous in their absence this year. There has to be a reason beyond the usual excuse that it’s the economy, etc. The format change is rather like Communism; it looks fine on paper, but in practice, it sucks! It may be great for the spectators and the media coverage, but for what I call the “support shooters”, the ones who pay to shoot but stand relatively no chance of coming in at the top of the lists, get nothing for even being there as opposed to years past. Add in the extra 2 days of meals and hotel bills and it’s fast becoming cost prohibitive for the lower level shooters to have a reason to come out and shoot.

Why spend another 1-2 day’s hotel bill for a “free meal” to see only the top shooters walk away with everything of any decent value that was donated with the intent that all shooters would have a chance at that merchandise?

All the donated firearms, with the one exception, were presented to the top overall shooters instead of during a random drawing as in the past. Vendors were asked to pay more (in cash) for tables at the Vendor’s building as opposed to merchandise as in the past and any donated merchandise was given to the top 20 instead of being included in the random “shooters bags” as in the past.

I wasn’t there, so I don’t have a “dog in this fight”, but I have participated in at least 12 Bianchi Cups since 1998. In running the largest AP matches east of the Mississippi, I want to have at least some input though. This is headed in the WRONG direction! I have contact with many of the top shooters in the world, and from what I’m hearing many, if not most, won’t be back at Columbia next year! That’s what a police officer would call a “clue”! NRAHQ listens but they don’t hear what’s being said!

When the program was turned over to a “Bullseye shooter” who didn’t listen to the “support shooters” it could only lead to catastrophe and that’s seems to be what’s happened here! The current format is great for the spectators and the media, but for the participants, not so much.

Just my $.02

Alan~^~

Edited June 4, 2016 by Alan550

[DWFAN]

Many international shooters stayed home because of Worlds, a new baby on the way, starting a new business, etc. Maybe the format change, I'm not sure.. but the one's I know were missing, just had other life events keeping them away.

Edited June 4, 2016 by DWFAN

[Chris1911]

In 2014 we had the infamous World Shoot in Kentucky so more Internationals made the pilgrimage that year than normal I think.

Yes definitely better to fund the new mover at Pioneer than give us more bling. The Flagler Cup is a big added draw card for me to travel so far as it gives me a second shoot way bigger than I can get at hone. Thanks again Ron and team.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Chris1911

[The Blade]

Don't forget the NRA show was the weekend prior. That's probably good for at least 10 people staying home.

[goldfieldshooter]

I understand the NRA show is the week before most years.

[want2race]

It's been said that sponsor money for the Cup was being syphoned to other NRA activities. It's not just that money was short, it was used for something else.

[Alan550]

In 2014 we had the infamous World Shoot in Kentucky so more Internationals made the pilgrimage that year than normal I think.

Yes definitely better to fund the new mover at Pioneer than give us more bling. The Flagler Cup is a big added draw card for me to travel so far as it gives me a second shoot way bigger than I can get at hone. Thanks again Ron and team.

You're probably correct on that idea about the World Shoot.

I understand the NRA show is the week before most years.

True dat! Every year it's within a week or 2 of the Cup.

[gm iprod]

Sponsorship was down about $100K from 2014

[Distant Thunder]

In a previous thread, Tom mentioned his fear that many lower level sponsors would not even be contacted for this year's 'Cup. Do we know if this is what indeed happened?

[DWFAN]

CZ-USA was not contacted.

[ffl]

We had to contact Woody (NRA Guy) to get a sponsorship form. The costs went up considerably from last year. Instead of product for shooters they wanted a large amount of money. It was not in our budget to fork out 1000 cash for a booth in the bldg. Plus product. I also heard that the Marketing/Prize department employees gets a bonus at the end of the year based on how much cash they bring in.

[Csbassplayer2003]

What i would love to know in a nutshell is this: What is the NRA doing to grow the sport of Action Pistol?

If the answer is "nothing", they need to give it up or appoint people who are passionate about it. I love Action Pistol, and its a shame to see so much apathy about it, especially from the people who should be promoting it. You have a great group of core shooters that i see at almost every match. But new blood is sorely lacking anymore and it wont survive without it.

[toothguy]

What i would love to know in a nutshell is this: What is the NRA doing to grow the sport of Action Pistol?

If the answer is "nothing", they need to give it up or appoint people who are passionate about it. I love Action Pistol, and its a shame to see so much apathy about it, especially from the people who should be promoting it. You have a great group of core shooters that i see at almost every match. But new blood is sorely lacking anymore and it wont survive without it.

Solvent? This is the NRA we are talking about. Money isnt an issue. Desire to grow the sport, and connectedness with your competitors is the issue, and organization is a by product.

The NRA needs to take a page from the organizers of a lot of these regionals. They are better organized, cheaper, and more fun in a lot of cases. With the resources the NRA has, this should never be the case.

I think your point about the regionals is key. They are run by Action Pistol shooters that have a long history and understanding of the match. Tom wasn't a shooter, but had things moving in the right direction because he made an effort to develop a connection with the shooters. So the core shooters, mostly Open, will continue to shoot the match, and it will grow again when another Tom comes along.

Edited June 6, 2016 by toothguy

[ffl]

I proposed this same question about AP several years ago. The answer was it has to be grown at the club level. The NRA will not help.

[DWFAN]

What i would love to know in a nutshell is this: What is the NRA doing to grow the sport of Action Pistol?

If the answer is "nothing", they need to give it up or appoint people who are passionate about it. I love Action Pistol, and its a shame to see so much apathy about it, especially from the people who should be promoting it. You have a great group of core shooters that i see at almost every match. But new blood is sorely lacking anymore and it wont survive without it.

Solvent? This is the NRA we are talking about. Money isnt an issue. Desire to grow the sport, and connectedness with your competitors is the issue, and organization is a by product.

The NRA needs to take a page from the organizers of a lot of these regionals. They are better organized, cheaper, and more fun in a lot of cases. With the resources the NRA has, this should never be the case.

I think your point about the regionals is key. They are run by Action Pistol shooters that have a long history and understanding of the match. Tom wasn't a shooter, but had things moving in the right direction because he made an effort to develop a connection with the shooters. So the core shooters, mostly Open, will continue to shoot the match, and it will grow again when another Tom comes along.

Tom also understood what it took to get sponsors. Media, celebrities, exposure.. all increased sponsors and shooter #'s. It was a snowball effect that took some time to get going. Sure.. as a shooter I could care less what celebrity was there, and some days i thought that the money bringing them to the match should have went to shooters instead.. It probably would have made its way to the shooter in the long run if things had been allowed to keep moving in the direction of Toms vision.

The NRA will support local growth.. if you have a junior program. Lots of $$ available there. Start a junior AP program at your range. Apply for gants. Beyond that.. its up to us to grow the sport.