Chris Leong Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 A funny thought occurred to me... First, a point of debate. There's a school that says "never dry fire a 1911, you'll ruin the trigger job". I used to do that until the RO said "Gun is empty, hammer down..." and then told me to dry fire my single stack towards a berm to check empty. I said why not ease the hammer down to protect the trigger job? He said just fire the thing to show it's safe. The trigger job will be fine. In UIT/ISSF precision shooting, almost all the guns have a hammer-down/dry fire control. But not the 1911. So which is it? Which brought me to this hare=brained idea: what about a practice gun? like maybe a CO2 powered BB gun that's a 1911 replica? they weigh the same and come with adjustable triggers these days, one could tweak the trigger to match the real gun. then one could dry fire all day long, in hotel rooms and everywhere, the sound would be loud enough to trigger a timer, and yet if people asked, it's just a toy. Is there such a thing? For instance, the Hammerli and Walther match pistols for UIT come with a removeable trigger section that works on its own. Great as the core of a dry fire pistol. crazy, right? ( 'course, any of you guys not living in a city will think I'm nuts... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Well I'll tell ya...I've dry fired probably hundreds and hundreds of thousands of times, although I imagine I have some catching up to do before matching how much Brian probably has done...And I have never had a problem with my triggers, and I run them light. If you are worried, and its a good idea anyway, when you cycle or cock the gun, hold back the trigger until the hammer is back then release the trigger. this will prevent the sear from dragging on the hammer ( it doesn't happen as you are shooting as the gun has cycled as least that far before you release the trigger). Word of caution: if you are going to do this when loading and making ready on the line. do it before you even bring a mag near the gun. Draw the gun, take your sight picture, cycle the gun with trigger held back, then load the gun with the finger clear of the trigger. An unfortunate shooter (M class) on my squad at the 1999 US nationals got the order wrong, loaded the gun and as he released the slide to go forward, then decided to pull the trigger. BANG. It was the first and only shot he fired in that match. It was our first stage. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 Another unsolved puzzlement laid to rest. Many thanks, o wise one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Dropping the slide on an empty chamber does far more damage than dry firing. You can always use a snap cap for practicing dry fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Will an earplug work in place of a snapcap??? Nobody answered the question chris put forth about bb guns. Will shooting CO2 bb guns help your shooting??? My kids have a bb gun range set-up in my garage and we have alot of fun with it. It also teaches the little ones about gun safety and handling. My 15 year old saved up his $ and ordered a $400.00 MP5 Marui electric bb gun, now that should be fun when it arrives!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Actually air guns are great learning tools for one main reason...velocity. Air guns are low velocity guns (except some). The benifit here is the projectile takes longer to leave the barrel, so any action or motion after the shot breaks will throw the shot. Followthrough is veerrryyyy important. Definately spend the money on a decent gun, I have a BSA Scorpion which is incredibly accurate. Some of the lower value CO2 guns are harder to shoot as triggers and sights are poor quality and impossible to fix. Every year we have The Toronto Sportsmans Show and one of the local clubs sponsers an airgun range with plates alot like a Bianchi rack...cool fun. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 Hi Pat Yeah, the long lock time on air pistols is what keeps us international types honest... :-) After you've been doing it awhile you can actually sort of twitch the gun back into line if you're a little out and kinda slingshot the pellet back into the bull as it's just leaving the barrel. Neat trick, huh. But you're right, there's nothing more important to air pistol (slow fire shooting) than trigger control and follow through. Even with the triggers set down to 1.1lbs (500g) it's easy to pull or push the gun over from the bull to even a 6 or a 5 if you're not totally concentrated. My question was more about the 1911 replica repeater BB guns, the Crosman or Daisy or the more expensive Weirauch 1911 replicas in particular. I know, for instance, that in several countries in Asia a company called Airsoft (?) makes IPSC replica guns (yes SVs and STs too, but with real C-Mores and CR-Speed 2001s - all the legal stuff is real) and they have matches too, using those airguns. I was wondering, if you're at home, the PACT time won't work because a dryfire is too quiet to trigger it, but an airgun fired works fine (I just tried it, it does work). So... if you're at home and practicing what most people do, which is the draw to the first shot, then in theory, using one of those 1911 pellet guns would be just fine, since all you're after is a similar feel, the same weight, and one shot. Heck, you could just put up a 10m ISSF target holder, which is a $75 metal box that sounds just like steel plate, only it holds the pellets/BBs in a 7x7 box. The second and subsequent shots wouldn't be so realistic (no recoil to control) but from what I gather, most people use 1911's anyway, so unless their slide-racking skills beat the bullet's, then dry-firing a real gun after the first shot isn't so realistic either... I saw a pretty decent 1911 copy at my local Big 5 store today, it was quite expensive, but it impressed me by being made of metal and having pretty much the same dimensions, weight and feel of a real 1911. If you practice at home and have a basement I'd say that this may be a good way to go, if you don't want to shoot 22LRs from an Ace or similar at home. (Of course, if you live on a farm, then all of this is moot anyway. For us city-dwellers, though, it may be a way to go.) Anybody try it? If not, I think I will, and report to y'all later. I'll take my scales, trigger scale and holster rig to the shop and see if the dimensions and weights really are the same first, though. And yes, the airgun I saw is a single stack. But if this works, then as I say, I think Airsoft makes a CO2 replica of almost every gun we use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 Apropos of that, check this out: http://members.nbci.com/endtimes/airguns/limitedmaster/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 And this: http://www.dentrinity.com/shop/airsoft.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Chris, I think you would be better off doing all your 'gun handling' with your IPSC gun, and using a good airgun in any configuration for indoor shooting practise. I had a look at the Weirauch a couple of years ago with simular ideas to yours, but found that the gun sat way too high in the hand for comfort, balanced diffently to my IPSC gun and cost more than 10K bullets. It was a lovely piece though, but didn't really fit the bill and could never replace dry firing my SV P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 I'm a bit of the opposite opinion, I think all shooting is good and you can learn from any kind of practice. Air gun, rifle, shotgun, or pistol, it's all good. Obviously you can't holster a BSA or Weirauch but all the rest is the same. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 Thanks guys. However, if you look at the sites closely, you'll realise that these are not your daddy's airsoft pistols. These are feel-the-same, weigh-the-same (with real Ed Brown/Brownell's/ST/SV) parts in them. They holster the same and are 1:1, 100% accurate models of their originals. They also cost around $350 each and they claim accuracy to 50ft. As I say, in Japan, Hong Kong, and other Asian countries where even airguns are restricted, this is what they use to shoot so-called BB-IPSC matches with. In the Philppines they used to use similar guns to practice with, apparently to cut down on ammo costs. And as we know, the Philippines holds the most Stage III matches of all the IPSC regions. I guess this all comes from not being able to use my Pact at home for anything but the beep and the par times. The CED and the CE Pocket Pro I saw will both trigger off a dry fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Hi Chris, Are you saying that the CE Pocket Pro will "read" the hammer-drop from a 1911? Thanks! TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 Hey Travis Yeah, a local guy was triggering his off just by tapping his finger on the case. And these were very light taps, at an ourdoor range (he was demoing the split function), which leads me to believe that in a (quieter) home situation, a dry fire will indeed trigger it. And isn't that what we're after? draw-to-first-fire times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Most timers easily register with a finger tap. But a 1911 hammer drop - that would be impressive! be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 30, 2001 Author Share Posted May 30, 2001 You know, maybe it's a matter of talking to the guys at PACT - an inducer that's plugged into the stop plate socket may well do the trick. I'll call tomorrow and let y'all know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgrc1 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 anybody know about just a plastic STI/SVI 2011 model? I have moved to singapore and found it to difficult to bring my guns with me and shoot over here, so I am being forced to put on hold my shooting until when I return home, in the meantime I would at least like to have a toy gun I can practice grips, target acquisition, draws, etc... I wouldnt be able to use my PACT timer or anything but I think its the best I can do for the time being, anybody seen a good plastic replica? - I think air guns are restricted in Singapore as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Long long ago, Matt McLearn offered a solid bronze copy of his racegun, the idea being to use it as an extra-heavy dryfire workout weight. Maybe you can find a squirt-gun with a decent grip angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahtsay Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 you guys should check out this site. http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Home I used to compete in airsoft matches before and its a lot of fun! I still have my SV Infinity that I dry fire regularly, whether or not it improves my shooting I really don't know. Western Arms makes the best 1911 airsoft pistol. "Airsoft" is the term used to describe these BB shooting guns and not the brand per se. I also own an AK Spetsnaz that have been modified to shoot over 500fps, some serious ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Did a quick ebay search: http://cgi.ebay.com/Airsoft-Lot-of-2-Eagle...1QQcmdZViewItem Not my stuff and I have no knowledge of the seller or the product, just thought that it was interesting. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 FWIW: a recent Airsoft thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...8176&hl=airsoft The Ebay spring-guns would probably be too light for useful index practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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