carinab Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Where it gets bad is when some idiot steps over the decency line into truly offensive territory. I figure that the ladies will tell me how far they feel comfortable going by the way they banter at me, and then I stay one "level" back from that, to be safe. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are right there....staying one level back is wise because women mostly won't tell you you've crossed the line....unless of course it's me, then you'll realize it in a hurry because your nose will get bent out of shape - literally !! Unfortunately most women won't give you warning - they're afraid if they don't participate, they'll be on the outs. But watch for the signals that you've gone too far. A lady who suddenlyl gets real quiet is a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 But watch for the signals that you've gone too far. A lady who suddenlyl gets real quiet is a clue. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've been with my wife for 14 years, now... I'm pretty reasonable at gauging the signals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Shooting With Women 101 for Men. 1. respect women as you respect yourself 2. women are shooters. 3. women can shoot. 4. this is a competition, respect their shooting ablity. 5. get use to having your ass kick by a woman shooter. (you there shooter grrl?) 6. like anyother sport, if you don't practice, you will get your ass kicked. don't get upset because it is by a woman. 7. the goal is to do the best you can do, not what the other person can do. 8. don't coach, unless asked. 9. shut up and shoot, because this is a fun sport. just my thoughts. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "just my thoughts." (lynn) Your thoughts are not only polite, they're sound. Some of us just like to shoot and are in it for self-improvement (fun), winning (fun), skill-building (fun) and social enhancement (fun). I kick royal a** in the .22 League and everyone knows it. Applause at the end of league (when I pick up yet another award) is generally loud and generous on my behalf (fun). I also get ceremonial hugs from the ROs when this award stuff happens (fun). I just try and set a good example for females, actually. I'm a regular at the range, I'm therefore a paying customer, I obey the range rules and interact significantly with all other shooters who want to talk or inquire about my guns or my technique--and I inquire about THEIRS. I've managed to learn a lot and learning is good. Oh, and did I mention that all this is FUN...?!! I'm still snubbing the idiots who've interrupt my conversations, but that's now THEIR problem. They simply lost their opportunity to learn from ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Just change 'women' to 'other folks' in Lynn's 101 course and it works for everyone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuck in C Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I'm disturbed by this thread, as I think we need to get as many female shooters out there as we can, for the sake of the future of the sport. I haven't noticed anything like this at the three clubs where I shoot; but maybe this just means I'm a typical unobservent male. Several women have told me the like USPSA shooting because its the least sexist sport they've ever done: they can compete on an equal or better footing with the men (speed and hand/eye coordination are areas where many women excel) and being scored by the timer and hits on target. Again, I've only seen encouragement and respect. Am I really that oblivious? And remember, there are rules about sportsmanship in the book. How about a DQ for being a jerk? Now for the sexist remarks: we need to encourage the women shooters because I'm sick of looking at the ugly mugs of the male shooters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Shooting With Women 101 for Men.1. respect women as you respect yourself 2. women are shooters. 3. women can shoot. 4. this is a competition, respect their shooting ablity. 5. get use to having your ass kick by a woman shooter. (you there shooter grrl?) 6. like anyother sport, if you don't practice, you will get your ass kicked. don't get upset because it is by a woman. 7. the goal is to do the best you can do, not what the other person can do. 8. don't coach, unless asked. 9. shut up and shoot, because this is a fun sport. just my thoughts. lynn <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm here Lynn and I have a question for you! Now be honest, was it difficult to come to terms with #5? Ya know, between this thread and Rikarin's request for help, I have the sinking suspicion that we "the grrls" are going to get tagged as man haters or some such nonsense. What I really want to know, is why are we "the grrls" still not considered a normal natural part of shooting? Why all the special attention to begin with? It all boils down to one thing, we are shooters, just like everyone else on the range! Since Carina edited her posts, I've decided not to share my "her ass-ment" horror stories with y'all, but they do happen, thankfully not as much as they used to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Let me stick my neck out again.... I nuked the posts because they weren't going to serve a useful purpose. A PM message I got made a good point that the ladies are in sort of a catch-22. If you complain about the guys that can't handle losing to a woman, the other group of guys that don't have the issue perceive it as whining (missing the point that it *does* happen - they're just not the ones perpetrating it). Part of my reasoning for nuking the posts was to also keep from looking like a whiner. So I've decided that inceasing awareness probably won't fix much of anything. We women will just have to deal with it ourselves as the need arises. I'm not going to let it intimidate me anymore either. Don't worry about me, I'll cowboy up and take what ever gets thrown my way because I BELONG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 What I really want to know, is why are we "the grrls" still not considered a normal natural part of shooting? Why all the special attention to begin with? It all boils down to one thing, we are shooters, just like everyone else on the range! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unfortunately Kath, not exactly like all the others. Think of all the places that something unique in a group gets all the attention. The albino alligator, the runt of a litter, one piece of 45 brass amongst a tray of 9mm. Things are definitely changing. There are increasing numbers of women playing the game. The ratio is changing. We must be doing something right. It's been years since I've heard a guy say they don't like losing to a girl. Nobody likes to lose, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "How about a DQ for being a jerk?" Brilliant! "To win without fighting is best." (--Sun Tzu) Winning feels good and losing can be painful--regardless of where your plumbing is, believe me!! We tend to stand out a bit in the shooting crowd because we're still in the minority (we albino alligators of the shooting range). Things in the minority are just more noticeable. It's natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 [Winning feels good and losing can be painful--regardless of where your plumbing is, believe me!! Another great line and so true! I am getting so many good one liners from the forum today. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Things in the minority are just more noticeable. It's natural Well, yeah, that and the fact we're genetically hard-wired to notice you. And, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It is how we behave toward you and around you that should be the issue... (or, more accurately, should *not* be the issue). Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 We tend to stand out a bit in the shooting crowd because we're still in the minority (we albino alligators of the shooting range). Things in the minority are just more noticeable. It's natural.[/color] <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What an odd comparison. Brief explanation . . . Was just digging for something to do up in Branson with my son this weekend in between shooting STC regional and they have a huge albino alligator at one of their wildlife parks up there. We're gonna do that and the go kart park with 3 story wooden tracks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "...yeah, that and the fact we're genetically hard-wired to notice you." And boy am I glad! I can actually say suggestive things at the range on occasion (some have called that "flirting"--I think there was a whole thread about that not too long ago) that only a lady could say and get away with at certain appropos moments. That (along with winning) is also fun... and none of the guys have complained in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "...yeah, that and the fact we're genetically hard-wired to notice you." And boy am I glad! I can actually say suggestive things at the range on occasion (some have called that "flirting"--I think there was a whole thread about that not too long ago) that only a lady could say and get away with at certain appropos moments. That (along with winning) is also fun... and none of the guys have complained in the least. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unfortunately, some people (read me) are sometimes overly encouraged by a little "harmless" flirtation....This can quickly lead to "hard feelings!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I think both sexes need to be aware of the issues.... Guys, come on, we *know* what's appropriate and what isn't - don't cross the line to inappropriate. And if a lady crosses the line on you, let her know politely. Ladies, let the guys know when they cross the line (politely, if possible). And, don't get upset if a line gets crossed when you asked for it (ie, you crossed the line first, or flirted first, or...) - but don't be afraid to make it clear that the line was crossed. If either side keeps crossing the line, all bets are off.... just remember, we *are* all armed, so keep it polite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Diplomacy is the better part of... everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 My 11 year old daughter got her hunter safety card yesterday. She did better than most of the guys on the test. So, we are riding in the truck last night and out of the blue, she asks, kinda sad like, "Dad, am I a Tom-Boy because I like to hunt and shoot?" I said, "no baby, you're not a Tom-boy." "Well, what is a Tom-boy then?" "A Tom-boy is a girl that tries to act like a boy. You're not a Tom-boy! You're a Warrior Princess. A Warrior Princess does what ever she likes to do, doesn't have to explain why, and then beats the crap out of anybody who teases her about it. " I'm waiting for the next call from the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 My 11 year old daughter got her hunter safety card yesterday. She did better than most of the guys on the test. So, we are riding in the truck last night and out of the blue, she asks, kinda sad like, "Dad, am I a Tom-Boy because I like to hunt and shoot?" I said, "no baby, you're not a Tom-boy." "Well, what is a Tom-boy then?" "A Tom-boy is a girl that tries to act like a boy. You're not a Tom-boy! You're a Warrior Princess. A Warrior Princess does what ever she likes to do, doesn't have to explain why, and then beats the crap out of anybody who teases her about it. " I'm waiting for the next call from the school. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Most excellent, kind of makes your head swell when you hear something like that, doesn't it Sam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 A little off topic but here is how a lady could affect one's shooting You guys know grace tan philippine lady shooter? She was the only one who made me trash a stage. The other male shooters could not psychologically affect me in my shooting and my quest to be no1. Anyway at a level 2 or 3 match, while waiting my turn i was sitting at the table facing the stage, she strolled towards me and sat beside me real close. I trashed that stage. The sad part is she was shooting open and i shoot standard and i got psyched out from now on, Im staying away from ladies on major matches ITS SO UNFAIR!!!! (but i liked it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 "A Warrior Princess does what ever she likes to do, doesn't have to explain why, and then beats the crap out of anybody who teases her about it." Whoo-Hooo, did YOU ever make MY day!!!!! I think this here warrior princess is gonna go clean a couple of big-bore pistols now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Good parenting Sam, I am inspired. Kind of a little Andy Griffith style in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted April 21, 2005 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 A Warrior Princess does what ever she likes to do, doesn't have to explain why, and then beats the crap out of anybody who teases her about it. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You sir are my HERO!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Sam, I've said it before and I'll say it again....you are the man. Can't wait to shoot with ya in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Given all the post editing that has gone on, it's hard to tell exactly what has been happening and how the ladies involved handled it so I may be preaching to the choir here but... my advice to you if a guy crosses the line, makes you feel unwelcome or uncomfortable, and you want something done about it is to let people know. Don't just tell him, let everybody there know. There are two absolutes about men that apply here... 1. We're NOT good at picking up "signals". Think about the bible...when God wanted to get a man's attention he had to set fire to a bush and make the thing talk. If that's what it takes for God to get through, you can pretty much forget about your "signals". 2. We ARE good at peer pressure. We'll jump out of perfectly good airplanes, swim with sharks, try to jump our trucks over things, etc. as long as our buddies are around. If a guy thinks the people around him think he's a jack@$$ for doing something, he'll quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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