TBF Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 I just got my A$$ reamed at a local match for checking empty mags to see if they dropped free in the safety area. I seriously thought the guy might draw and engage me if I did not cease and desist immediately. Is this covered in the rule book somewhere I missed ? When someone says " DROP THE MAG RIGHT NOW ! DO IT ! DROP THE MAG ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW ! " I gotta admit it chaps my A$$ just a little. Is it an IPSC/USPSA rule ? Can you do this at a major match ? If it's not in the rule book, is it just bad form ? The keyword is " empty " , in addition there was no racking of the slide and my finger was out of the trigger guard and the muzzle was pointed at a conctere wall approximately 3 feet in front of me.. What should you do if you want to check mags to see if they drop free ??? Thanks in advance ! Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 WTF....If that happened to me I wouldn't refrain from telling him in no uncertain terms to bite me. All the rules say is you can't handle ammunition in the safe area....not mags. I have practiced reloads in the safe area in a match multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Tell the dufus to leave you alone or you'll have him disqualified for unsportsmanlike conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Rule 2.4.1 Competitors are permitted to use the Safety Areas for the activities stated below.... Rule 2.4.1.3 Practice the insertion and removal of empty magazines and/or to cycle the action of a firearm. Tell him to bite you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 The guy owes you an apology. I am sure he was a well meaning range Nazi who probably jumped to the conclusion you had a loaded magazine in the safety area, but the rules specifically allow empty magazines in the safety area: Rule 2.4.1 Competitors are permitted to use the Safety Areas for the activities stated below provided they remain within the boundaries of the Safety Area and the firearm is pointed in a safe direction. Violations may be subject to match disqualification (see Rules 10.5.1 & 10.5.12). 2.4.1.3 Practice the insertion and removal of empty magazines and/or to cycle the action of a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Well it seems Dave and I are on the same page, he's just faster!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 No ammo, no dummie rds, no snap caps. Empty mags, you betcha! -----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Well it seems Dave and I are on the same page, he's just faster!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...at typing maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 You should check your mags at home to see if they drop free because that's where the files and dremel are If this were to happen to me I would ask them to show me the rule that says no mag handling in the safety area. That should keep them busy awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I'm sorry man, I had just lost my favorite magazine that I've had since I was six years old and, and, and for a second there......... yours looked just like it! Take some solace in the fact that a "jackass bitching" is one place where it is much better to be the recipient than the giver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 While it is true that checking your mags in a safety area is well within the rules (so long as they are empty) and it is also true that you can practice reloads with empty mags, You can rest assured that if I see you with amagazine, I will approach you and verify that they are empty. Particularly if you are new to our range. If I know you, I might assume that you are aware of the rules and acting accordingly. If you are a new shooter, I and I assume most others will want to verify that you are doing the right thing. On a second note here. I personally think that handling mags in the safety area is not a good idea. Sooner or later, you are going to grab a mag off your belt that has round in it an you are either going to get a DQ or worse, you are going to let off a round. Again, I understand that the magazine is SUPPOSED to be empty, but inserting a mag into a gun is essentially the act of loading a gun. Sooner or later someone being exhausted from a full day in the heat, partially dehydrated is going to grab the wrong mag and thats when we'll wish we had not allowed this action. Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 What a colossal turd. If this guy is a MD or RM or any sort of honcho at the club, find another club. If he isn't, have the MD square him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I personally think that handling mags in the safety area is not a good idea. Sooner or later, you are going to grab a mag off your belt that has round in it an you are either going to get a DQ or worse, you are going to let off a round. Jim Norman <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's exactly why loaded mags stay in the bag/box until I'm the shooter "in the hole." I have 1 dedicated "empty" mag for at home and at the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I'm sorry man, I had just lost my favorite magazine that I've had since I was six years old and, and, and for a second there......... yours looked just like it! Take some solace in the fact that a "jackass bitching" is one place where it is much better to be the recipient than the giver. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Start crying - and when asked whats wrong explain you were raised on the farm and it makes you homesick when you hear a Jackass bray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 L2S, Having a dedicated EMPTY mag, while it may work for you is still in my mind a potential for a disaster. I would have to know just how you have deliniated your empty magazine from the others so that there would be no way that you could inadvertantly confuse the empty mag with your loaded mags. Simply keeping it in a seperate pouch or painting it orange is not good enough. I realize as I said earlier that it is within the rules to practice reloads at the safe area. My opininion is that it is not a good practice to do so. If you have not mastered reloads by the time you get to a match, I truly doubt you are going to move from D to G at the safe table. True enough there is one instance where you may need to verify that a mag still drops, step on one and grind it into the mud, you of course need to clean it and verify that you have not deformed it. My opinions, yours of course may vary. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Interesting. There was an RO down at the Florida Open who kept shrieking at everybody for handling empty mags in the safe area. Everybody treaded very lightly, perhaps because they weren't completely sure of the rule--one poor guy I remember was visibly shaken by the scolding. Since I was shooting revolver, and he didn't tell me to keep my hands off the cylinder, I had no personal axe to grind and just kept my mouth shut. The RO otherwise seemed like a good guy. Safety is fine. Safety is mandatory, in fact. But there are a few IPSC shooters who still can't get over some innate, subconscious fear of firearms--probably spawned by a lack of guns in the house when they were kids. (Or so it seems to me...) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm951 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 While I can kinda see the guy's point, the rules are clear on this. He could also have excercised more tact in making his point. I make sure mine drop free while I'm at home, but I can see how it might become necessary to ensure that a replacement or borrowed mag will still drop if one of yours gets damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Empty mags are fine in the safe area. Just keep your empty mags and full mags separated, and you'll be fine. Whoever gave you the a$$ chewing owes you an apology, as others have stated. And, if you see someone in the safe area with a magazine, by all means check, just don't go ballistic. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Empty mags are fine in the safe area. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unless that range has a rule against it. Maybe they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Perhaps it could be a local rule? Maybe your club has a "No Magazines in the safe area" policy. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 If they do have a local rule, that would be covered by 3.3.1 Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam38 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 What do you all feel about having loaded mags on your belt while you are in the safe area checking your dot or doing a few draws? AFAIK it's not against the rules as long as you don't touch your mags but it might cause someone to be concerned. What do you think? Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I feel comfortable. The requirement is not to handle them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 If thats a local rule it should have been announced at the shooters meeting and posted at the safe area.----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 There are no LOCAL rules...at an USPSA/IPSC match. If it is an USPSA match, it is run under the rulebook...or it needs to call itself something else. If there is a valid reason for a "local" rule, then the Match Director needs to submit a request to the Regional Director (for USPSA, that is our President, Mike V.) to get an exception under 3.3.1 (as Bruce pointed out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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