"Sticky" cases

[Face5535]

I've loaded my first 1k on both my 1050 and 550...

I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on my 650 before I sold it to upgrade... I am having a few issues with both.

When I get to the powder drop/bell station the cases are sticking pretty bad. I am using Dillon Carbide does (no U die) and although the rounds are coming out perfectly, it's annoying and does not feel "smooth".

I know that part of the issue is the MBF that is on the 1050, the funnel has been known to stick... The 550? Have not heard this... I am having issues though.

I loaded 38special on the 550 with zero problems, 45 and 9... No good.

I use case lube and stick have the issue... Yes, I wet tumble... But, even in "uncleared" brass I am still getting this. As another note, the bell is so minor, it's def not over belling.

Also, I have loaded the same for years, same way of cleaning brass, same way of loading... Same amount of powder, etc... Never had this with the 650...

The 650 and 550 are not very different I terms of operation... Not sure why this would start happening now?

Thoughts/help?

Edited March 27, 2016 by Face5535

[billdozer]

Are you using case lube?

[Beastly]

I have the same issue and conventional wisdom is that it is from over-cleanign in wet processing, especially with SS pins.

I have made changes to my brass processing recently to drop the pins (cement mixer) and use Armor All Wash and Wax instead of dish soap. Hoping a little wax inside of the cases will help. Also now using U-die which MIGHT be contributing to the issue. I need more time before I will know results.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Beastly

[Alan550]

Case lube is your friend. Some seem to think that Carbide dies don't require it, which they don't, but that doesn't mean it won't help a bunch to smooth things up.

[ASK712]

There are many threads on the net about this issue especially especially with 9mm. Most attribute it to the brass being too clean. I dry tumble with walnut and still occasionally have the issue. I've found using One Shot case lube almost always resolves the sticking. I put my 9mm brass in a zip lock bag add a blast of One Shot, zip and tumble. Works great! I have a 550b with Dillon carbide dies and One Shot just makes everything run that much smoother.

[Face5535]

Yes, I use case lube...

Additionally, I've went to just loading and not cleaning... still the same issue. I just can believe that it's because the case is "to clean" since some brass I've loaded is not cleaned at all (not overly dirty though, once or twice shot without a cleaning).

Last, regardless of which cleaning process I use, I never had the issue with either (SS wet or cob) when I was loading on the 650?

Maybe more lube... I guess I give that a try.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Face5535

[GrumpyOne]

Polish the powder drop funnel to a mirror finish.

[Face5535]

I'll give this a shot....

[Tom S.]

What lube are you using? They're not all the same.

[Face5535]

I use Dillon...

[tanks]

I had the same issue on 45 ACP cases that were wet tumbled to be super clean. A second or two of Hornandy One shot fixed the problem.

[SPDGG]

fwiw:

I too would say its brass being too clean from the wet method. The times I have wet tumbled, once the cases were dry. . . I run them for 45-60 min. through corn cob treated with nu-finish & mineral spirits, cap here & there depending on the times/cases tumbled. I spray with Dillon case lube/spray, haven't had an issue with cases sticking to the drop or die.

[b1gcountry]

At one point, I chucked up the through powder expander in my drill press and polished it with some fine emery cloth and then some flitz. I'm not sure that was needed or that it helped. I was trying to solve a problem that was being caused by my bullet seating die. I just didn't know it at the time. I get some cases that stock but very few.

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[Tom S.]

I have a love-hate relationship with the Dillon lube. It works, but requires cleaning after loading. My ritual of lubing is to put a bunch of cases in a cut down box, make sure they are all lying on their side and spray them with the lube. This method results in some cases getting lube inside the case mouth which helps in the powder drop/belling stage.

[Boggus Deal]

Dillon part #13005 Powder Activator, Pistol has just a tapered nose to bell the case and does not have an expander function. It will bell the case enough to seat the bullet but will not expand the case and will not cause any sticking. I don't have a photo handy but will try to post one later.

[Sarge]

Dillon part #13005 Powder Activator, Pistol has just a tapered nose to bell the case and does not have an expander function. It will bell the case enough to seat the bullet but will not expand the case and will not cause any sticking. I don't have a photo handy but will try to post one later.

Been there, done that. It is great at removing the bell but without expanding the mouth certain bullets/ case combos will not center at all.

[Face5535]

I just went in and reloaded around 250 rounds on the 550... Not one sticking case... all out of the same brass batch as well? So strange... Maybe there was a bur on the funnel or something and it wore down.

Looks like that issues is now fixed!

[b1gcountry]

On my press, issues don't fix themselves, they just take a break and come back later.

[Face5535]

On my press, issues don't fix themselves, they just take a break and come back later.

I am sure that will ring true here!

[wimms]

Are you getting coke bottle shaped rounds too?

I struggled with this same sticking issue on my 650. Sometimes I had to use brutal force to get the case unstick with a bang.

Polishing funnel helps. Occasional lubing the bell expander with your fingertips helps.

But the root of the problem is imo that Dillon resizer die is too small. Brass is not all the same in terms of case wall thickness. Cases with thicker walls after resizer die become too tight on the funnel. If your resizer die is turned way down then this makes it even worse as the die goes down the taper.

I got finally rid of this issue completely when I replaced the funnel with the DAA stepped one and replaced the resizer/decap die with Lee carbide full length sizer die.

ps. then again, in the neighboring thread http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=229065 people are having exact opposite experience. Go figure..

Edited March 31, 2016 by wimms

[wimms]

I would add that the phenomena causing the sticking seems to be what is called galling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

I haven't tried this myself, but just recently I got myself my first bullet mold and noticed the special warning on it before first use: it must be cleaned and then burned in the match flame to avoid bullets sticking. What burning does is to deposit a layer of carbon on the surfaces. So this got me thinking - dirty cases do have carbon on their internal walls, and that probably helps. The funnel is relatively soft metal and if the neck tension combined with the surface roughness is causing microwelding then solution is to ingrain some solid lubricant onto the polished surface of the funnel. Perhaps even simple match flame trick is enough. Perhaps this happens naturally over time if loading dirty cases.

But ultimately I believe the problem is too high neck tension.

[Alan550]

I would add that the phenomena causing the sticking seems to be what is called galling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

I haven't tried this myself, but just recently I got myself my first bullet mold and noticed the special warning on it before first use: it must be cleaned and then burned in the match flame to avoid bullets sticking. What burning does is to deposit a layer of carbon on the surfaces. So this got me thinking - dirty cases do have carbon on their internal walls, and that probably helps. The funnel is relatively soft metal and if the neck tension combined with the surface roughness is causing microwelding then solution is to ingrain some solid lubricant onto the polished surface of the funnel. Perhaps even simple match flame trick is enough. Perhaps this happens naturally over time if loading dirty cases.

But ultimately I believe the problem is too high neck tension.

I think you could re-word that part in red. Some one will try that under a loaded powder measure, sure as hell!

[wimms]

I would add that the phenomena causing the sticking seems to be what is called galling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

I haven't tried this myself, but just recently I got myself my first bullet mold and noticed the special warning on it before first use: it must be cleaned and then burned in the match flame to avoid bullets sticking. What burning does is to deposit a layer of carbon on the surfaces. So this got me thinking - dirty cases do have carbon on their internal walls, and that probably helps. The funnel is relatively soft metal and if the neck tension combined with the surface roughness is causing microwelding then solution is to ingrain some solid lubricant onto the polished surface of the funnel. Perhaps even simple match flame trick is enough. Perhaps this happens naturally over time if loading dirty cases.

But ultimately I believe the problem is too high neck tension.

I think you could re-word that part in red. Some one will try that under a loaded powder measure, sure as hell!

Lol. Yet I haven't said anything inconsistent. There would definitely be plenty of carbon ingrained after that

I am from eastern Europe and here it goes without saying that safety of grownups involved is sole responsibility of themselves.

For those who go with lighted matches under the loaded funnel, Darwin developed theory of evolution - they tend to get extinct.

[Alan550]

I would add that the phenomena causing the sticking seems to be what is called galling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

I haven't tried this myself, but just recently I got myself my first bullet mold and noticed the special warning on it before first use: it must be cleaned and then burned in the match flame to avoid bullets sticking. What burning does is to deposit a layer of carbon on the surfaces. So this got me thinking - dirty cases do have carbon on their internal walls, and that probably helps. The funnel is relatively soft metal and if the neck tension combined with the surface roughness is causing microwelding then solution is to ingrain some solid lubricant onto the polished surface of the funnel. Perhaps even simple match flame trick is enough. Perhaps this happens naturally over time if loading dirty cases.

But ultimately I believe the problem is too high neck tension.

I think you could re-word that part in red. Some one will try that under a loaded powder measure, sure as hell!

Lol. Yet I haven't said anything inconsistent. There would definitely be plenty of carbon ingrained after that

I am from eastern Europe and here it goes without saying that safety of grownups involved is sole responsibility of themselves.

For those who go with lighted matches under the loaded funnel, Darwin developed theory of evolution - they tend to get extinct.

OH I agree entirely, but Murphy takes no vacations and some idiot here in the US will try that, you can almost bet. And SWEAR that they "read it on the internet" so it must be safe!

Your suggestion isn't out of line at all, but as one of our comedians says, "you can't fix stupid"

[mkready]

I first experienced sticky brass when I bought a big batch of new Starline 9mm. Brand new on the first load it left brass all over by powder funnel and was miserable to load because the case was stuck to the funnel on the down stroke. My range brass went through fine. Then I got a wet tumbler with the stainless pins. That thing can clean brass! Same sticky problem as the new Starline depending how long I left it in the tumbler. In the middle of the run, I through my remaining cases into my corn/walnut mix media with a drier sheet for 10 min. Spun all the media off the brass and started again. Not a sticky case in the lot. I believe the wet tumble cleans the brass to well. The corn or walnut media leaves some dust on the case that acts as a lubricant on the funnel. not sure what I'm going to do now. Not doing both.