Xl650 How To Seat Primers Deeper?

[ErikW]

I just loaded 200 rounds for the match tomorrow and I had to re-seat high primers on half of them, all Winchester .40S&W brass.

Loading WSR in Win .40 brass has always been a problem but after loading a few thousand rounds in PMC and Federal brass problem-free, I'm not going to take it anymore. What can I do to my press to seat primers deeper?

Tighten the shellplate? Get a longer seating stem?

I've got boatloads of Win brass so I need a solution.

[BritinUSA]

I usually tighten the shell plate down until it just turns freely and no more. Also, you could try a small peice of foam (like door insulation) under the primer stem. There is a plate underneath the spring loaded stem that you could stick a small peice of that insulating foam.

The foam should work better than something solid as there may be a risk of crushing the primers if too much pressure is applied.

[calhunter]

There isn't really anything that I can think of on the press that would cause that other than the shell plate too loose. I turn the bolt down until it stops and then back it off about 1/8 a turn or a little less on my XL650. Sounds more like a case problem than the press. Try a primer pocket uniforming tool such as Midway 400021 or 146201. I use these in a Trim Mate case prep center 565099. It's a giant pain in the ass but you only have to do it once and it really doesn't take that long. I also use the chamfer tool to put a slight bevel on the pocket. I haven't had a case or pirmer problem since I started doing it. Never had a primer go off.

You might try marking the cases that cause problems with a magic marker then hitting them with the primer tool before you load them next time. I'll bet your problem goes away.

I checked the primer punch on my 650 and there is only about .010 travel left in the primer punch before the spring is fully collapsed when the handle is all the way back. I also checked the manual and it only makes reference to the shell plate for this problem.

Steve

[DougCarden]

Eric, I hate to say it, but I had the same problem, and solved it by buying a 1050.......

[dajarrel]

Eric,

I separate Winchester .40 for my match brass. No particular reason except that I was seeking consistancy in my load, especially at chrono, and had an ample supply of it.

Having said that, I haven't had any problems with seating WSR primers. I have recently gone to them (it was all that was available when I needed some BADLY) for all non-revolver use.

I haven't had any problems with the primers not seating. It is a very easy seating stroke, almost too easy. I occasionaly look to see if I actually put a primer in the brass.

My troublesome brass is S&B and military brass that hasn't had the primer pockets de-swaged.

If you have adjusted the shellplate properly, I don't know of anything else you can do. I mean, When I go to the seating stroke without brass in the machine, the primer seating anvil pushes up almost an 1/8th of an inch past where the base of a piece of brass would be.

I hope you figure it out.

dj

OBTW, in the event that you don't, you can send all that Win. brass to me

dj

[JRBean]

I had the same problem when I first started loading .40 win brass with wsr primers on my 650. I just make sure that the shell plate is tight enough about an 1/8 of a turn loose on the bolt and make sure that when it is time to seat the primer I lean into the handle when I push forward on it to insure that the primer is fully seated. I haven't had any problems since I started doing this.

[mg1199]

when i had my 650, i had some high ride primer problems with a few rounds. what i noticed was that priming spring assembly (the part that gets compressed) underneath the shell plate was loose. i just used a wrench to snug it and it was fine since then.

[Flexmoney]

Federal primers seat "well below flush" for me on my 650 with Winchester 40 brass. (And, no...they don't blow up.)

[EricW]

Erik,

How far above flush are they?

If you decide to shim, the ONLY thing that will work reliably is steel. (BTDTGTTS) You might buy a super-cheap feeler gauge to sacrifice for the purpose if you need to, then you'll have calibrated shims.

[Clay1]

Maybe a goofy response, but have you cleaned primmer pockets on that particular batch of brass lately. Uniform primmer pockets are a good place to eliminate problems. Just a thought.

[wide45]

Nobody cleans primer pockets for pistol brass.

I did when I first started reloading. Found it acomplished nothing.

My theory is that every time you fire a round, the primer blows the old dirt through the flash hole, and deposits some fresh grunge. It does not accumulate with repeted use.

[ErikW]

No F'ing way am I gonna clean primer pockets.

I'm going to tighten the shell plate, check the primer stem tightness, try WSP primers, and shim the stem if those don't work.

[Ray_Z]

Nobody cleans primer pockets for pistol brass

OH,OH I guess I'm a nobody. I always tumble my brass for a couple of hours, then deprime and decap. Then after case gauging all the brass and discarding those that don't make the grade, it's back to the tumbler for a good polishing. With the spent primers gone this cleans the pockets. It takes a little longer but I'm not pulling many bullets after the finished produce doesn't drop in the case gauge and I don't have high primers.

[.40AET]

"No F'ing way am I gonna clean primer pockets."

Amen!!! I'd quit shooting for 5 months and use the cash to buy a 1050 before I clean a single primer pocket. Man, all this extra work is making me tired!

Sorry for the drifting. All of the Win. and Federal primers seat the same in my 650. I've been switching back and forth a lot lately. I get mostly, Win, PMC, Speer, and Rem. in a 5 gallon bucket. Only the crimped sh*t gives me a fit. If tightening the sheelplate doesn't work, then order a new primer puch. Tell them yours is defective.

Good luck!

[Clay1]

You guys make me glad that I shoot 9mm in production. Ran the numbers again tonight. Components cost 87.50 before shipping and tax and to buy the ammo it cost 91.50 before the shipping and the tax. Both numbers are per 1000 rounds. I'll shoot Blazers and let 'em drop.

[ErikW]

1. Tightened shell plate. Result: high primers.

2. Used WSP instead of WSR. Result: high primers.

3. Shimmed seating stem: Result: high primers.

Actually, I couldn't effectively shim the stem, the design doesn't allow it. I would have to add material to the surface of the press or the bottom of the stem, which would require welding. How did you do it EricW?

[10mmdave]

1. Tightened shell plate. Result: high primers.

2. Used WSP instead of WSR. Result: high primers.

3. Shimmed seating stem: Result: high primers.

Actually, I couldn't effectively shim the stem, the design doesn't allow it. I would have to add material to the surface of the press or the bottom of the stem, which would require welding. How did you do it EricW?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe this idea can help.......

I sorta had this problem with the large seating stem on my 650, I at one time

cleaned primer pockets on pistol brass (not for long though )

I used my 650 to de-prime the brass and the crud got into the seating stem assembly and kept it from moving up in it's assembly.

As someone stated earlier, you can actually push the stem up into an empty

primer pocket, if you can't do that then clean out the stem assembly or maybe

replace it.

[ErikW]

I cleaned it up pretty good when I took the stem assembly out last night. I jsut called Dillon and ordered a new one.

I suppose one way to make the stem "taller" would be to take some material off the top of the bolt that threads into the press?

[EricW]

How did you do it EricW?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't, actually.

I just know from previous experiments that there is so much force involved that nothing besides steel will hold up. I was going to suggest manufacturing a custom primer punch, but that's going to take some doing as I'm guessing they have to be hardened. The other solution would be to take the bottom side of your shellplate to a surface grinder. It may be that your shellplate, or primer punch are simply out of tolerance. You *should* have enough give in the system to crush the primer into the pocket.

You could try mig-ing a button onto the bottom of the primer punch, but you're going to have to be damn sure to use some type of heat sink setup to avoid annealing the punch. It'll have to be one "zap" at a time - then let it cool. You'll have to build it up enough to make a nice platform to grind down.

[Clay1]

What did Dillion say when you called them?

[diehli]

Here's an idea: push harder, you pansy!

[Merlin Orr]

Here's an idea: push harder, you pansy!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Always nice to get a fresh helpfull new idea!

I don't know squat about the 650 - but - I had the sizing die screwed down to tight and it kept the handle from making a full stroke?? I know the 550 and 650 prime different but thought I might thow this in....

[ErikW]

They asked if I broke it and I said I wore it out. Which might be true. The top of the stem doesn't seem level.

[ErikW]

The new stem doesn't help. <sigh>

I decapped a bunch of brass and examined the pockets. They are thick with crud; maybe that's what is preventing the primers from seating fully? I tumbled a load of sized/decapped Win nickle brass and the pockets cleaned up nicely. Normal Win brass, though, has dirtier pockets and they don't clean up in the tumbler. (WTF?)

I'm thinking a taller "anvil" (the part the seating stem bottoms against) would help seat primers deeper.

[Clay1]

Eric, you will have to give us feedback on how the tumbled brass loads for you. Again, what did Dillion offer as an idea on how to solve your problem?