9mm Major with MINIMUM blast and MAX softness

[Gooldylocks]

Okay so I have an interesting question for you all. I am wondering what people would recommend for their least blasty, least loud major load in a 9mm?

I load 115s with 8.9 of HS6 for my open load, and I like it well enough, but I am trying to get my girlfriend to come shoot a match again. The last time she shot it was with my G17 in Limited Minor (she isn't there to be competitive or anything, just going for fun), but I think she would enjoy shooting open much more (we also shoot steel, and she loves shooting our MKIII 22 open gun). Fewer reloads, gets to shoot with a dot, major scoring, etc.

But she doesn't like loud blasty guns, or lots of felt recoil in the hand, which is kind of an issue when we are talking open guns haha.

So this got me thinking about making a super soft un-blasty load with some faster powder and heavier bullets. 147s and WAC/CFE is what I was thinking. A 147 only has to be going 1150 fps for 170 power factor.

Before everyone jumps on the "you don't want heavy bullets for open" bandwagon, I know that. This isn't going to be nearly as flat as my major load, and that's okay. All I am looking for is SOFT and NON-concussive.

Does this sound like a reasonable use of my time and effort? Am I headed in the right direction for reaching my goal? What recommendations does everyone have for creating a load like this?

I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say. Thank you all very much in advance.

::ETA:: By saying "does this sound like a reasonable use of my time and effort" I mean if it is gonna be a serious PITA then I will just load some minor ammo for her, like I said she isn't doing it to be competitive at this point.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Gooldylocks

[kneelingatlas]

If she's not worried about being competitive, why shoot Major? 7gr of HS6 under a 95gr bullet will be very nice.

[ChuckS]

Try your 9mm minor loads.

[Sarge]

Why not see if it will run your minor loads? Drop a 6 pound spring in it and use what you already load.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If she's not worried about being competitive, why shoot Major?

PF of 145 is a real nice solution - easier if you're shooting outdoors, and

with double ear protection.

At a match, keep her away from the Blasters (other people shooting very

loud loads - esp the .223's).

[Open1215]

If you really want major and a 147 try a slower powder. I spoke a a older guy who used 147g and long shot. Said it was the softest he ever shot. It was also quiet.

This was in 38 super but I'm sure it will work in 9 too. I'm not shire on a starting point but I would find data for the largest bullet u can and work up from there. 3n38 is soft too. You may even be able to go VV N105 with a heavy bullet.

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[Gooldylocks]

If she's not worried about being competitive, why shoot Major? 7gr of HS6 under a 95gr bullet will be very nice.

Wouldn't a load like this be really loud and concussive? That is still a pretty large powder charge, especially with a tiny bullet like that.

It appears most everyone seems to think just try my current minor loads, so i might try and see if that works. My concern is that if we have to shoot the same gun I won't be able to be changing springs between us and everything, it needs to function with my 10 pound spring.

If you really want major and a 147 try a slower powder. I spoke a a older guy who used 147g and long shot. Said it was the softest he ever shot. It was also quiet.

This was in 38 super but I'm sure it will work in 9 too. I'm not shire on a starting point but I would find data for the largest bullet u can and work up from there. 3n38 is soft too. You may even be able to go VV N105 with a heavy bullet.

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So you are thinking a slower powder, interesting. My thought was using a lighter charge of faster powder, but I suppose you would be making less pressure with the slower powders. Do you think my HS6 would work?

[Bamboo]

Take a look at the data in the spread sheet Jeff Maass created: http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf

Running 135 - 160 grain bullets out of a super was very common and many liked the heavier bullets for both load safety (major was 175pf), and feel-of-recoil reasons. I used cast 135 and 150 grain bullets for quite a while and they do shoot well. Not as racy as the lighter bullets, but honestly they work pretty dang well.

[kneelingatlas]

I've loaded 10gr of SP2 under a 100gr bullet in 9mm, that's loud

The easiest thing to do is leave the charge the same and switch to a lighter bullet, but if you drop the charge too it will make her giggle

You really can't just look at the charge weight, comparing powders with different burn rates is comparing apples to oranges. Looking at the Hodgdon load data for 95gr bullets, 7gr probably won't even cycle, they list 7.3 making just 117 PF and 7.8 making just 127 PF. I have some light bullets if you want to buy a sampler pack.

[dave33]

If you can find some Accurate #7 put 9 gr under a 100gr RN bullet. That is super soft, makes 135PF, and accurate. I dont think its loud, but I wear ear plugs and muffs, its definitely not loud through that.

[Gooldylocks]

As a rule of thumb how much less powder does it take to make the same PF out of a 9mm than a super? Or is it more of a test and repeat until you find what you are looking for? That IPSC load list has a 147 LRN with 7.5 of HS6 for a PF of 186, which would mean that to my brain mid 6's would get me just over major in a 9mm..

I've loaded 10gr of SP2 under a 100gr bullet in 9mm, that's loud

The easiest thing to do is leave the charge the same and switch to a lighter bullet, but if you drop the charge too it will make her giggle

You really can't just look at the charge weight, comparing powders with different burn rates is comparing apples to oranges. Looking at the Hodgdon load data for 95gr bullets, 7gr probably won't even cycle, they list 7.3 making just 117 PF and 7.8 making just 127 PF. I have some light bullets if you want to buy a sampler pack.

My problem with switching to a different bullet and not chaining anything else is how long my ammo is, I load at like 1.18. If I used a longer bullet like a 147 wouldn't my OAL stay the same, and just more bullet be in the case?

Thank you all for all the help, I appreciate it! Keep it coming!

[kneelingatlas]

Don't get mixed up here, I'm solidly in the 95gr bullet camp, forget the 147s!

With the OAL only way to know is to try, if I normally load 1.170" with a RN 115 and switch to a RN 100gr the OAL shrinks to ~1.110" because of the difference in bullet shape. You can also try flipping the seating insert to avoid changing the die.

If you want good advice you have to first decide which direction you want to go, the way I see it you have three good options, two in minor and one in major:
1. work up a major load using 147gr bullets over 6-7gr of HS6 (should be slightly quieter/softer, but will flip more)

2. shoot Production ammo (147gr bullet over a small charge of fast powder) in your Open gun which will feel like a heavy Production gun with a dot (may need to change springs to cycle)

3. load a minor load using 95gr bullets and a moderate charge of HS6 (7-8gr) depending on the charge weight you may not need to change springs to cycle this load and it will definitely be the flattest/softest of the three. It's not the quietest, but it will be quieter than your major load (is she using foam ear plugs under muffs?)

Edited March 14, 2016 by kneelingatlas

[Gooldylocks]

Don't get mixed up here, I'm solidly in the 95gr bullet camp, forget the 147s!

With the OAL only way to know is to try, if I normally load 1.170" with a RN 115 and switch to a RN 100gr the OAL shrinks to ~1.110" because of the difference in bullet shape. You can also try flipping the seating insert to avoid changing the die. I wasn't thinking about it not being the same length, that's part of what is drawing me to the 147's.... but I suppose I might have to change it for those as well.

If you want good advice you have to first decide which direction you want to go, the way I see it you have three good options, two in minor and one in major:

1. work up a major load using 147gr bullets over 6-7gr of HS6 (should be slightly quieter/softer, but will flip more)

2. shoot Production ammo (147gr bullet over a small charge of fast powder) in your Open gun which will feel like a heavy Production gun with a dot (may need to change springs to cycle) Like I said a few posts ago, I can't really change springs during a match (for obvious reasons) so this one is probably out.

3. load a minor load using 95gr bullets and a moderate charge of HS6 (7-8gr) depending on the charge weight you may not need to change springs to cycle this load and it will definitely be the flattest/softest of the three. It's not the quietest, but it will be quieter than your major load (is she using foam ear plugs under muffs? She will be for this, previously just plugs)

That leaves 1 or 3. I think I have a few 95 grain bullets laying around, and I know I have some 147's somewhere. Maybe I will try some of each and report back on what seems better.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Gooldylocks

[kneelingatlas]

OK, if you're going to be sharing the same gun I would see what the OAL (and if it plunk tests OK) comes to if you just change from 115 to 95.

[Open1215]

If you going minor. Light bullets slow powder. If you major AA 7 is awesome. Not much blast. Even a 135 may be a m nice middle ground for major. If you really want to score major.

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[jcc7x7]

Mine will function with 9mm loads in any book at the top end, which will normally get you in the 140-150 Pf range.

My wife has shoot them a bunch and likes them a lot more than 172 PF loads.

Her favorite is 147 loaded with 5.2 grs of WSF about 155 PF but not as loud or snappy in the hand as the 172 loads

Says the dot just bounces right back in the middle!!!

[accu9]

Ryan just have her wear plugs and muffs. problem solved

If you are hell bent on this, Mark's load is: 6.8 HS6 behind a moly 147. Very smokey, very flippy and a waste of time!

[Gooldylocks]

Ryan just have her wear plugs and muffs. problem solved

If you are hell bent on this, Mark's load is: 6.8 HS6 behind a moly 147. Very smokey, very flippy and a waste of time!

I'm gonna have her try that next time we go to the range. I have a bunch of plated/jacketed 147s from all that crap I pulled that I'm going to load and try to see what she thinks.

[bikerburgess]

For a happy girl friend try a heavy bullet and a fast powder at minor, they shoot soft and are quiet. Also with very little powder you get very little gas to work the comp so their is a pretty good chance it will run with the same spring as your major load.

Edited March 17, 2016 by bikerburgess

[Gooldylocks]

For a happy girl friend try a heavy bullet and a fast powder at minor, they shoot soft and are quiet. Also with very little powder you get very little gas to work the comp so their is a pretty good chance it will run with the same spring as your major load.

I will have to try it and see what she thinks. Hopefully it doesn't go sub minor though

[bikerburgess]

Yea, sub minor makes for a Looooong ride home