Jake Di Vita Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) I remember shooting a stage at the Area 7 match years ago that was self starting (so you actually pressed the timer button yourself) and hands anywhere except actually touching the pistol (everyone I saw caged the gun with their hand almost touching). No one cared then because it wasn't a big deal at all. Amazing how people get their panties in a twist over stuff as little as this. Dear God. Edited February 1, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I remember shooting a stage at the Area 7 match years ago that was self starting (so you actually pressed the timer button yourself) and hands anywhere except actually touching the pistol (everyone I saw caged the gun with their hand almost touching). No one cared then because it wasn't a big deal at all. Amazing how people get their panties in a twist over stuff as little as this. Dear God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Why don't you show me where and how it's against the rules chief. Pretty sure it was vetted by people more experienced than both of us seeing how area match and all. Edited February 1, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I remember shooting a stage at the Area 7 match years ago that was self starting (so you actually pressed the timer button yourself) and hands anywhere except actually touching the pistol (everyone I saw caged the gun with their hand almost touching). No one cared then because it wasn't a big deal at all. Amazing how people get their panties in a twist over stuff as little as this. Dear God. What rule was violated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Some people ate trying too hard to be the only one who's right that they don't get to see the humor. Kind of like in Men In Black when Tommy Lee Jones replied to Edgar's wife, "No, ma'am, I'm not making fun of you. We in the FBI have no sense of humor that we're aware of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Some people ate trying too hard to be the only one who's right that they don't get to see the humor. Kind of like in Men In Black when Tommy Lee Jones replied to Edgar's wife, "No, ma'am, I'm not making fun of you. We in the FBI have no sense of humor that we're aware of." The internet is very serious business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Indeed. At least, some people think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeyedme Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I was a CRO at that match & the WSB was "standing in the shooting area, anywhere, anyhow". During our staff briefing, this was defined for us as pretty much anything goes as long as you are not touching the gun & mags. So you want your crouching tiger start position, that was fine. I like what someone posted earlier using the language "shooters choice" and will pass that one on to the RM.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I was a CRO at that match & the WSB was "standing in the shooting area, anywhere, anyhow". During our staff briefing, this was defined for us as pretty much anything goes as long as you are not touching the gun & mags. So you want your crouching tiger start position, that was fine. I like what someone posted earlier using the language "shooters choice" and will pass that one on to the RM.. The people complaining weren't even there. What they also don't know is there were 2 competent CRO's and one R.O. on the stage that ran Candice. If her start position was not per the WSB, she would not have been started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I was a CRO at that match & the WSB was "standing in the shooting area, anywhere, anyhow". During our staff briefing, this was defined for us as pretty much anything goes as long as you are not touching the gun & mags. So you want your crouching tiger start position, that was fine. I like what someone posted earlier using the language "shooters choice" and will pass that one on to the RM..The people complaining weren't even there.What they also don't know is there were 2 competent CRO's and one R.O. on the stage that ran Candice. If her start position was not per the WSB, she would not have been started. You keep repeating yourself as if insisting that you, and you alone, underrated and are right. Please stop. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I was a CRO at that match & the WSB was "standing in the shooting area, anywhere, anyhow". During our staff briefing, this was defined for us as pretty much anything goes as long as you are not touching the gun & mags. So you want your crouching tiger start position, that was fine. I like what someone posted earlier using the language "shooters choice" and will pass that one on to the RM..The people complaining weren't even there.What they also don't know is there were 2 competent CRO's and one R.O. on the stage that ran Candice. If her start position was not per the WSB, she would not have been started. You keep repeating yourself as if insisting that you, and you alone, underrated and are right. Please stop. Thanks. You guts keep complaining about something without knowing the facts. It is important to get the actual Facts out there so the keyboard commandos know what actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 It's about time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I was a CRO at that match & the WSB was "standing in the shooting area, anywhere, anyhow". During our staff briefing, this was defined for us as pretty much anything goes as long as you are not touching the gun & mags. So you want your crouching tiger start position, that was fine. I like what someone posted earlier using the language "shooters choice" and will pass that one on to the RM..The people complaining weren't even there.What they also don't know is there were 2 competent CRO's and one R.O. on the stage that ran Candice. If her start position was not per the WSB, she would not have been started. You keep repeating yourself as if insisting that you, and you alone, underrated and are right. Please stop. Thanks. You guts keep complaining about something without knowing the facts. It is important to get the actual Facts out there so the keyboard commandos know what actually happened. We "guts" aren't complaining about anything. The "facts" of the actual match don't really matter at this point. Everybody "gets" what happened there. Glad everybody had fun. At this point of the thread the questions being asked have been hypotheticals, around an interesting rules question that comes up periodically at matches. Our matches, where everybody on this forum isn't present but can certainly participate in a discussion, given a clear statement of the question. It's not helping to keep banging away at the rest of us about "what really happened" and "you weren't there". It's just making the tone of the discussion dark and unwelcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) For the reader who's interested in a broader discussion of the topic of start positions, I found the following threads, which are fairly recent: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=222732 Post #5 has a communication from DNROI that would seem to help but drew further questions. The thread is awaiting a clarification response from him. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=149600 (Edited for clarity) Edited February 1, 2016 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Money Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Sorry for my late reply, and I don't want to stir up more controversy but did want to say exactly what happened at the match. I saw a shooter in my squad shoot our first stage with his start position hovering directly over the gun in his holster. There was discussion in our squad, and with the RO's of the stage who did in fact say any hand position not touching the gun would be legal. I then proceeded to ask every CRO of every stage what the start position was and if any hand position was legal. It was for this match as long as the WSB did not specify otherwise. Personally, I would rather have the default "hands relaxed at sides" start since this is what I practice most of the time. Learning the abbreviated draw didn't go all that well at the match. If any start position is incorrect, it is the RO's responsibility to ask the shooter to Make Ready again and not proceed until the shooter has assumed the correct start position. As to my wardrobe malfunction, I can only say that I was going to keep going in the stage until told to stop, and sort it out later. The RO did not give me any penalties nor offer a reshoot (no grounds to give me one). I made sure to secure my belt better after that stage.As to the comment that I am not an RO:I was an RO, had my credentials rescinded, and am now reinstated as an RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Sorry for my late reply, and I don't want to stir up more controversy but did want to say exactly what happened at the match. I saw a shooter in my squad shoot our first stage with his start position hovering directly over the gun in his holster. There was discussion in our squad, and with the RO's of the stage who did in fact say any hand position not touching the gun would be legal. I then proceeded to ask every CRO of every stage what the start position was and if any hand position was legal. It was for this match as long as the WSB did not specify otherwise. Personally, I would rather have the default "hands relaxed at sides" start since this is what I practice most of the time. Learning the abbreviated draw didn't go all that well at the match. If any start position is incorrect, it is the RO's responsibility to ask the shooter to Make Ready again and not proceed until the shooter has assumed the correct start position. As to my wardrobe malfunction, I can only say that I was going to keep going in the stage until told to stop, and sort it out later. The RO did not give me any penalties nor offer a reshoot (no grounds to give me one). I made sure to secure my belt better after that stage. As to the comment that I am not an RO: I was an RO, had my credentials rescinded, and am now reinstated as an RO. Thanks very much for your input. I saw your video, and you had some really good runs. You handled the "wardrobe malfunction" well, as if you'd done it in practice. As they said in Galaxy Quest, "never give up, never surrender". I'm in the same place about changing skills in the middle of a match. Use what you know, train for different stuff later. Good shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Sorry for my late reply, and I don't want to stir up more controversy but did want to say exactly what happened at the match. I saw a shooter in my squad shoot our first stage with his start position hovering directly over the gun in his holster. There was discussion in our squad, and with the RO's of the stage who did in fact say any hand position not touching the gun would be legal. I then proceeded to ask every CRO of every stage what the start position was and if any hand position was legal. It was for this match as long as the WSB did not specify otherwise. Personally, I would rather have the default "hands relaxed at sides" start since this is what I practice most of the time. Learning the abbreviated draw didn't go all that well at the match. If any start position is incorrect, it is the RO's responsibility to ask the shooter to Make Ready again and not proceed until the shooter has assumed the correct start position. As to my wardrobe malfunction, I can only say that I was going to keep going in the stage until told to stop, and sort it out later. The RO did not give me any penalties nor offer a reshoot (no grounds to give me one). I made sure to secure my belt better after that stage. As to the comment that I am not an RO: I was an RO, had my credentials rescinded, and am now reinstated as an RO. Thank you for your reply. Please understand that there was no malice toward you in my post. its not often we see these kinds of stage descriptions and your vid stage description showed something that differed from what was used. As youtube and enoes are a public forum there are many opinions out there and they are like *******, everyone has one. it would be very boring forum if no one asked questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Anywhere Anyhow doesn't mean you have to change your normal start position, it gives you the opportunity to change it if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Money Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Anywhere Anyhow doesn't mean you have to change your normal start position, it gives you the opportunity to change it if you want to. It seemed the gamer thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeyedme Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 snip>>>Personally, I would rather have the default "hands relaxed at sides" start since this is what I practice most of the time. Learning the abbreviated draw didn't go all that well at the match. <<<snip I was wondering that myself. So many shooters started with a hovered hand but since nobody really practices that way is it an advantage? In my book, probably not. In any event, thanks for coming down and shooting our State match. Hope to see you at the Florida Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Money Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 snip>>>Personally, I would rather have the default "hands relaxed at sides" start since this is what I practice most of the time. Learning the abbreviated draw didn't go all that well at the match. <<<snip I was wondering that myself. So many shooters started with a hovered hand but since nobody really practices that way is it an advantage? In my book, probably not. In any event, thanks for coming down and shooting our State match. Hope to see you at the Florida Open. It was my pleasure to shoot the FL State match. I think it was faster, but a bit more fumbly for me than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skizeks Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Just because they said so don't make it right... follow the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 When I was MD, it was just easier to put "hands on X's, toes on X's" in the WSB and pull some fluorescent orange duct tape strips from a roll and make X's on the partitions or on the 2X2 foot fault line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb315 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Just because they said so don't make it right... follow the rule book. Actually, it does make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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