blacklab Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ok, so I decided to try to build my own 1911 open steel gun. After I put it all together and test fired it I found out it don't work. I could really use some help in trouble shooting it. Here is a list of parts and things I did: Parts: 1 Rock Island 1911 frame 2 Para stainless steel 5" slide 80 series 3 Roto 9mm threaded non ramped barrel 4 EGW fire control parts, extractor, ejector, comp., etc. 5 Wilson Combat beavertail, thumb safety slide stop 6 Wolf #6 recoil spring #14 main spring 7 Metal fab or Metal form mags. (cant remember there right name) Work done 1 Lightened slide to 10.2oz. recut inside of slide to match 70 series slide 2 Fit frame to slide 3 Fit ejector, extractor, safeties etc. 4 Drilled and taped for C-more 5 Polished feed ramps Problem The first round in a 10 round mag chambers and ejects fine, but when the second round starts to go into the chamber the slide gets stuck. It looks like the bottom of the slide is hanging up on the middle of the next round in the mag. The gun cycles fine with no mag in it and when there is a empty mag in it. It does the same thing with 5 different mags and all these mags work fine in my other 1911. One thing I did do is I filed a ramp on the slide so when it rides over the disconnect there would not be a lot of resistance, is it possible that the ramp is not letting the slide go over the next shell at the right angle and binding? Any help with this would be appreciated. I tried to give as much info as possible, if you need more info please let me know. As you can see from the parts list this is not a high dollar build because it's my first attempt at building one. I would like to see it through to the end and fix the problem my self.....it's a matter of pride. I just need to know what to look for. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Is it possible this ramp you made on the bottom of the slide is preventing the slide from picking up the top round out of the magazine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 BrianALT, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The slide does pick up the next round and starts to chamber it, but before the slide closes all the way it gets stuck. The round going into the chamber is fine. That's not what is hanging up, it looks like the slide is hitting the round still in the clip instead of sliding over it. Is that possible? I didn't think that small of a ramp would make that much of a difference, Does it? Am I missing something else? As of right now I have a lot of time and money in a gun that is only good for a boomerang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 If you did more than put a small radius here, sorry about your new paperweight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ignore my above post, you posted right before I did and I see your issue now. You're getting a double feed. The gun fires, the slide goes to the rear, one round pops out of the mag on its own, then the slide starts forward and tries to strip the next round in the mag resulting in a jam. This is usually caused by magazine feed lips being out of spec. But since you say the mags work fine in another gun then I suspect your gun is under-sprung. The slide is hitting the frame so hard at the end of its rearward travel that a round is popping up out of the magazine. Try an 8# recoil spring or a 7# spring and a shokbuff. Should clear it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Sounds like the ramp you cut is catching on the back of the disconnector when the slide is almost closed. You may need to re profile the back of the disconnector. I would try that first since it is the cheap part. Absocolds post about the double feed could be why as well. Edited November 26, 2015 by MrPostman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'm not sure how the "ramp" he cut at the bottom of the breech face could be hitting the disconnector when the slide is closed except for half the length of the cartridge protruding out of the chamber ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Yep you are right Steve, I had to go and get my STI to see where mine catches and it is just right after the slide starts closing. So "ding ding ding" double feed is the correct answer. Please ignore my drunken answer lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Tell us about your ammo. Is it factory or very soft reloads? Are the bullets round nose, hollow points or semi-wadcutters? On new builds, I break them in with round nose ammo loaded to factory specs. If I run into problems I'll run magazines that have been properly tuned (i.e.the measurements on the feed lips are correct and the magazine springs are not worn). If you have them available, experiment recoil springs. When you say you polished the feed ramp, was this done by hand or with power tools? I assume you did the polishing before test firing the gun. And last, how does the magazine sit when latched in the gun. Compared to your other guns, is the magazine higher, lower, or the same. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Absocold, the ramp I cut is a little longer and deeper then the one you show in the picture. Sounds like that might be the problem. Maybe I'll weld and re machine it back to flat. I should have added that I'm only shooting round nose factory ammo @125ish pf. I'll try a #7 or #8 spring but with the comp. I don't know if it will cycle. I polished the ramps by hand, I didn't want to change the angle of the ramps I read that you really have to be careful with the ramps. Thanks for the info so far. Edited November 26, 2015 by blacklab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Flatlander, the mags fit the same as my other 1911. They don't look too high or low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) You gave a good description on what you got when it locks up, but next time you go to the range, could you possibly share a picture? I've had friends bring over guns that misbehave and I guess I'm not smart enough to figure it out on the first try. Sometimes its more than just one thing that needs tweaking. Sometimes we can do like the old school mechanics did to repair cars. Switch out parts one at a time until its solved. To that end, would you be comfortable with tearing down one of your other guns and trading out parts? Just part of the experimenting. Bill Edited November 26, 2015 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Flatlander, I'll try to take a picture of how it jams/sticks but I don't know if it will show up to well. The slide closes 3/4 of the way and it's hard to see into the mag area. I did try to put my other slide on the gun but the ejector is fit to the Para slide, the other slide didn't fit past the ejector. I didn't think that was a problem, I thought it was normal for a ejector to have to be fitted to the slide. Do you think something is out of spec on the Para slide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) I've never messed with Para slides so don't know if there has ever been a problem with one. Couple of things to play with at the range, load up the magazine with fewer rounds. See if the problems persist with just several rounds in the magazine. Next time it jams, before touching the slide, drop the magazine and see if it goes into battery or not. If you have them available, go to a heavier recoil spring and hotter loads. 125ish PF may be just a little too light until you get the gun broke in a bit. I have two open guns that just do not want to run at under 135 PF (using 115 and 124 gr bullets). Bill Edited November 26, 2015 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It could be the extractor, see if it has any burrs or rough spots where it engages the case. Only reason I mention that is if the cartridge is 3/4 of the way into the chamber it isn't going to be the feed ramp at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Questions: what's barrel lock up at, in thousandths? What size link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Flatlander, I loaded it with dummy rounds this morning. I tried to get pictures but I just can't get any that show enough. This is what I did learn: 1- When you drop the clip it goes into battery with no problem. 2- It's a progressive problem, the fewer founds in the clip the better it gets. With only 1 or 2 rounds in the clip it almost works fine, but there is still some resistance. Mike, I used the link that came with the barrel. I don't know a lot about links. I don't really know how to measure barrel lock up. It was a drop in barrel. Sounds like I still have a lot to learn. Tomorrow I'm going to weld the ramp I cut in the slide. My thought was the more the better, now that don't seem like a good idea. I'll let you know how it works. I really do thank you all for your help. I forgot to mention that I did put a #8 spring in it. Racking it by hand it didn't make a difference. You can feel something binding. Edited November 26, 2015 by blacklab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) If possible, pull out the disconnector and see if the slide moves freely or it binds. You could see a little resistance due to the disconnector but not a whole lot. By dropping the magazine and the gun will go into battery, a stronger recoil spring may solve your problems. I'd hold off welding on the slide for now. Edited November 26, 2015 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Try a heavier recoil spring, and I'd 2nd not welding on the slide yet. There isn't any reason the cut you made would keep the slide from going into battery, especially if the cartridge is going 3/4ths of the way into the chamber. Have you checked the rounds to see if they go into the chamber easily ??? Especially the last little bit ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 look at your breech face's width Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Absocold, the ramp I cut is a little longer and deeper then the one you show in the picture. Sounds like that might be the problem. Maybe I'll weld and re machine it back to flat. I should have added that I'm only shooting round nose factory ammo @125ish pf. I'll try a #7 or #8 spring but with the comp. I don't know if it will cycle. I polished the ramps by hand, I didn't want to change the angle of the ramps I read that you really have to be careful with the ramps. Thanks for the info so far. The ramp (if you really need it) only needs to be in the center, and no wider than the disconnector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 Ok I'll hold off on welding. I'll try shooting it with a heaver spring after I check the slide without the disconnector. Steve, yes the rounds go into the chamber fine, I don't think that's the problem. On a full clip the first round goes in fine with racking it by hand, then after the first round is ejected the second round starts to go into the chamber but then the slide binds. I can take a small screwdriver and wiggle the round that has started into the chamber, so that's not what is binding the slide because it has no resistance on it. Mike, the breech face seems fine. I took the slide off and put a round in. The shell was held in place by the extractor, it's not a tight fit but it's not too loose ether. Is there a measurement for the width, or is it something you have to adjust by feel? I can't shoot the gun for about a week, deer season starts in Pa. and the neighbors get a little mad when I start shooting behind my house, plus I'll be up state hunting myself. Thanks for all the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanttolearn Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) a few photos of the undersurface of the slide and of the top of the frame etc might help us to understand better would similarly suggest trial running without the disconnector in place..... don't shoot the pistol, just see if it loads/cycles dummy rounds from your magazines. sounds like you checked this already or relieved this area but its worth the few minutes to rule it in or out. then see what happens if you alter the recoil spring rates a bit. My comped 9mm runs a 10 or 11lb spring....but each gun is different. Edited January 5, 2016 by wanttolearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Will it cycle factory Ammo? Double check your extractor tension Start ruling out the simple things first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echotango Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 As stated above, try a heavier recoil spring. Sometimes a 6 pound spring will not strip the round up all the way and jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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