Linkscoach Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I'm shooting a Gen 4 17 in SSP in an indoor IDPA league this winter. It seems like I'm always fighting the pistol to get it to come back on target after recoil. It dips below the target instead of settling back on target. I have an older Gen 3 21 with a lot of rounds through it and it tracks very well for me. This has me thinking that I need to try to drop the recoil spring rare on the 17. The problem is I don't know where to start. Could someone point me in the right direction? I want to stay SSP legal so I believe I need to stay with a Glock guide rod but not 100% sure on this. Would a stock Gen RSA and adapter be the place to start? For what it's worth I'm not currently reloading. I'm shooting 124 grain Xtreme hollow points from Freedom. I don't have a chronograph but they feel like a very light load to me. Thanks in advance for helping a new guy out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 11 to 13 lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 The 9mm doesn't develop that much recoil so the 17lb OEM spring should not throw it forward. Hold you gun like this if you want to control it. The Glock in the picture is a G22 40S&W running Speer Lawman factory 180 grain just at 1,000 fps. It's got way more juice than a 125 gr 9mm going 1,100 fps. Notice 3 cases in the air at the same time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaultthesalt Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Switch to a 13lb spring...change your grip to a more aggressive " thumbs forward " grip , and she'll run flat for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Be curious where those rounds hit lol. I can make it rain brass but I can't make a bet on where they'd be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Be curious where those rounds hit lol. I can make it rain brass but I can't make a bet on where they'd be. In competition shooting, you call your hits. LOL. The shooter shown in the photo just threw a double, at about 15 yards while moving. Whatever you do in USPSA, do it fast. But it sucked, because it was 2 "C's" and not 2 Alphas. Still, shooting Limited 10 Major, that's 8 points. My crew doesn't judge your performance, you just have to live with the shame and disappointment until the next match! What's your name? Charlie.... Not AKA Double Alpha. Yea, come back next time Charlie. Edited November 12, 2015 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkscoach Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm using a good grip but I'll continue to work on it. I'm also going to give the 13# spring a try. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&W686 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I would go with a #13 lb spring and you can get a single spring assembly for the Gen 4 model from Glockmeister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I run a Gen 4 17 as well. I still use the stock recoil spring in it and mine shoots pretty flat. I'll upload a video to YouTube later and post it so you can see. It's all about the grip. I sue the thumbs forward grip as posted by 9x45. I also try to literally crush the grip/my right hand by squeezing as hard as I possibly can with my left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkscoach Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Okay. So I guess I should ask if there is another reason I would have difficulty with getting the 17 to come back on target and not the 21? When I'm working on the plate rack I'm consistently fighting the 17 from plate to plate. When I transition to the next plate I have to wait for the sights to settle back on the target. With the 21 the sights are waiting for me when I get to the next plate. I'm not new to shooting but new to gun games and using a timer. With the 17 my times on the plate rack are usually pushing 5 seconds. If I have to go back and pick up misses it's because I missed low. Times with the 21 are usually right around 4 seconds. Going back to pick up misses happens a lot less frequently. If there is a software problem I should be looking at and not hardware I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchris4769 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I put ISMI stainless guide rod in my G34 with 11lb spring and it shoots very flat with 124gr and 147gr freedom ammo Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporter Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Go with the 11 as mentioned above. 13 is ok, 11 runs flatter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JestingDevil Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 13lb in my 34 makes a huge difference vs the stock spring in my 17. Much easier to track and recover. Never tried an 11lb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saibot Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 My guess is your grip. I've been experimenting with this quite a bit lately and have fired 100's of rounds into the berm just watching the sights and seeing how they track with various grips/pressures. It's been very enlightening and frustrating. We're all built differently so I'll speak to my experience, but the one thing that makes the world of difference is what I'm doing with my strong hand. Not the pressure of it, but the position. Vogle puts it best in this video where he describes not gripping it like a monkey gripping a hammer. You want to "pinch" it: https://youtu.be/45QhpvY9LZc?t=28s The rest of his video is good, but the mechanics don't work for me. I can overcome a poor grip foundation with a deathgrip, but I pay in trigger control and being too tense to move fast. Building a good foundation with the "pinch" seems to allow flat shooting without as much effort. And for what it's worth, I have two identical G34's and I played with spring weights a little with weekend and have a soggy 13# spring in one and new 13# in the other and was a bit surprised to see the heavier spring tracking much better for me. I had assumed the lighter would be better, being the common consensus, but it wasn't the case with my load (soft shooting 125RN/Tite Group at 131PF). Next time out I'll try a 14# and a 15# spring to see if I can find the "sweet spot" for my load, guns. Anyway, my 2 cents is to burn up some ammo shooting into the berm and see where you need to be with your HW/SW. One last thing, do you care how much your sights move if they return exactly where they left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 If you change the guide rod in SSP it has to be of the same material, stainless steel is not allowed and would put you in ESP. Links if you are shooting low with your G17, it's still a grip issue. Keep in mind the G21 is heavier and inherently more accurate, but if you have the fundamentals down, you should be able to run the G17 faster because it cycles faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saibot Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 If you change the guide rod in SSP it has to be of the same material, stainless steel is not allowed and would put you in ESP. Links if you are shooting low with your G17, it's still a grip issue. Keep in mind the G21 is heavier and inherently more accurate, but if you have the fundamentals down, you should be able to run the G17 faster because it cycles faster. You might want to see if that is still the case in SSP. I could have sworn it was by weight now, so you might not have to get a plastic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal82 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 A steel guide rod is legal in SSP. 8.2.1.3.4 Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 well, I guess they have been some rule changes since 09.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkscoach Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Anyway, my 2 cents is to burn up some ammo shooting into the berm and see where you need to be with your HW/SW. One last thing, do you care how much your sights move if they return exactly where they left? I appreciate the input. I've been working on my grip during live fire since posting this. I hadn't thought of firing without a target and just tracking the sights. Something I'm going to try. I've actually been out of commission the last few days. Concussion and broken orbital bone from an accident at BJJ practice. What drives me crazy is my 21, 19, and 26 all seem to come back on target for me without much effort. The 17 has been a struggle since I bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkscoach Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Keep in mind the G21 is heavier and inherently more accurate, but if you have the fundamentals down, you should be able to run the G17 faster because it cycles faster. Something else I hadn't thought about regarding the 21's weight and slower recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corey4 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 what back strap are you using on the 17? maybe the 21 just fits your hand better. try the largest back strap on the 17; it kinda feels like a 21. with me, i use the medium backstrap on my 17, and none on my 19. the hump on the 19 is higher up, so putting on a back strap makes the grip too big for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkscoach Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 I've been running a cut down beavertail on my 19 and 17. Basically no back strap just the beavertail portion. If the weather cooperates tomorrow I'm going to experiment with the large beavertail again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chs3131 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Use a single captured or non captured recoil spring. The duals in the gen 4 9mm are an on going pain. oh and run a reduced spring weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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