why can a open gun use 8/9# recoil spring,but its not considered good

[Sandbagger123]

for a 40 SW limited gun? I read all the time that open guns work well with 8-10# springs in 9mm major and 38S. when it comes to 40 sw limited guns lot of people say don't go under 12# or the gun will bash itself to death. they both use the same PF min .

So can someone explain the reasoning for this?

[yoshidaex]

The weight of the comp absorbs some of that energy when it goes thru the firing sequence.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

The comp gobbles up all that anger.

It's the magic of an open gun that the WO guys will never know.

[GrumpyOne]

The comp slows down the unlocking of the gun from battery. Try running a 12-14lb spring in just about any open gun at even 185 PF, and you'll end up with a single shot.

[CHA-LEE]

I think the main difference in the recoil spring weights used in Open vs Limited comes down to muzzle flip potential and control. With a properly tuned Comp and Load on an Open gun the majority of the muzzle flip is eliminated by the gas exiting the comp. Since the gun isn't muzzle flipping its a lot less probable that the slide momentum coming back forward will be diminished so it will continue to feed reliably. A Limited gun on the other hand requires supreme Grip Pressure and Angles to properly manage the recoil and muzzle flip. If you grip the gun hard with the proper angles there will be very minimal muzzle flip due to the shear amount of mechanical leverage you have against the gun as the slide cycles. If you have a poor grip pressure or angles and allow the gun to muzzle flip excessively then you need a heavier recoil spring to overcome the absorbed energy and snap the slide back forward. This is why stock off the shelf guns come with very stiff recoil springs from the factory. The stiff recoil spring ensures proper feeding no matter how much the shooters poor grip allows the gun to muzzle flip.

The general rule of thumb is this. The harder you grip the gun to reduce muzzle flip the softer recoil spring you can get away with using and still have reliable feeding. If you grip the gun like a wimp and allow it to muzzle flip excessively you will always be forced to use stiffer recoil springs to ensure reliable feeding.

As for weaker recoil springs causing excessive frame or slide damage that is an urban myth. Regardless of recoil spring weight used, the slide is always coming back at a very high velocity and beating into the frame. Semi Auto pistols are designed to function properly for many thousands of rounds in this environment. Can someone hog out a slide to make it super light and then use really light springs to dramatically increase the slide velocity? Sure. Will this increased slide velocity have an increase chance of failing sooner? Sure.

It all comes down to how you want the gun to feel while shooting to meet your goals. When I was shooting EAA Limited guns I liked how a lightened slide an 8lb recoil spring felt and functioned while shooting. A slide would last about 25K before cracking and need to be replaced. That failure mode was more due to the reduced slide weight than the reduced recoil spring weight. Today I shoot an STI Edge type of Limited gun with a lightened slide and a 10lb recoil spring. I grip it hard and it shoots as flat as a well tuned open gun. I am yet to crack a slide or damage a frame and have probably put 50K though it so far.

Competition guns are like race cars. We are tweaking and tuning them for maximum performance and longevity is a secondary requirement. Show me a NASCAR, or NHRA Dragster with a 36,000 bumper to bumper warranty with only needing oil changes until 100K? It doesn't exist. The same can be said for a high performance competition gun. When you are running in the red line more often than not, stuff is going to fail sooner than later. That is the facts of competition equipment.

Edited September 3, 2015 by CHA-LEE

[greyhounder]

Well said and informative

[Ultimo-Hombre]

I think the main difference in the recoil spring weights used in Open vs Limited comes down to muzzle flip potential and control. With a properly tuned Comp and Load on an Open gun the majority of the muzzle flip is eliminated by the gas exiting the comp. Since the gun isn't muzzle flipping its a lot less probable that the slide momentum coming back forward will be diminished so it will continue to feed reliably. A Limited gun on the other hand requires supreme Grip Pressure and Angles to properly manage the recoil and muzzle flip. If you grip the gun hard with the proper angles there will be very minimal muzzle flip due to the shear amount of mechanical leverage you have against the gun as the slide cycles. If you have a poor grip pressure or angles and allow the gun to muzzle flip excessively then you need a heavier recoil spring to overcome the absorbed energy and snap the slide back forward. This is why stock off the shelf guns come with very stiff recoil springs from the factory. The stiff recoil spring ensures proper feeding no matter how much the shooters poor grip allows the gun to muzzle flip.

The general rule of thumb is this. The harder you grip the gun to reduce muzzle flip the softer recoil spring you can get away with using and still have reliable feeding. If you grip the gun like a wimp and allow it to muzzle flip excessively you will always be forced to use stiffer recoil springs to ensure reliable feeding.

As for weaker recoil springs causing excessive frame or slide damage that is an urban myth. Regardless of recoil spring weight used, the slide is always coming back at a very high velocity and beating into the frame. Semi Auto pistols are designed to function properly for many thousands of rounds in this environment. Can someone hog out a slide to make it super light and then use really light springs to dramatically increase the slide velocity? Sure. Will this increased slide velocity have an increase chance of failing sooner? Sure.

It all comes down to how you want the gun to feel while shooting to meet your goals. When I was shooting EAA Limited guns I liked how a lightened slide an 8lb recoil spring felt and functioned while shooting. A slide would last about 25K before cracking and need to be replaced. That failure mode was more due to the reduced slide weight than the reduced recoil spring weight. Today I shoot an STI Edge type of Limited gun with a lightened slide and a 10lb recoil spring. I grip it hard and it shoots as flat as a well tuned open gun. I am yet to crack a slide or damage a frame and have probably put 50K though it so far.

Competition guns are like race cars. We are tweaking and tuning them for maximum performance and longevity is a secondary requirement. Show me a NASCAR, or NHRA Dragster with a 36,000 bumper to bumper warranty with only needing oil changes until 100K? It doesn't exist. The same can be said for a high performance competition gun. When you are running in the red line more often than not, stuff is going to fail sooner than later. That is the facts of competition equipment.

Quite authorative

You are an open GM as well ?

Edited September 4, 2015 by Ultimo-Hombre

[CHA-LEE]

Open GM? Nope. But I will be working on that soon enough.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Oh, ok.

?

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Open GM? Nope. But I will be working on that soon enough.

Such a cool guy.

[Sarge]

Bwahaha!! I love how UH snuck WO into the conversation!

Well done!

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Bwahaha!! I love how UH snuck WO into the conversation!

Well done!

All in good fun. Edited September 4, 2015 by Ultimo-Hombre

[wgj3]

WO...???

[Quack]

WO...???

Welfare Open (Carry Optics) Edited September 5, 2015 by Quack

[kcobean]

My Limcat BattleCat has a 10# recoil spring in it and I think the standard Perfect Sights run the same. But mechanically, they're similar to a compensated gun because of the barrel weight.