high ground Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I've shot in 3 USPSA matches and I generally end up at about 54% which I guess is "C" class. I would like to take a training class but that's alot of money. Would I be better off buying a couple cases of ammo and practicing on my own, working the basics. Or should I just take a 3-5 day couse. Which is going to help the most? I've been shooting for about 10 years, the last 4 pretty regularly, at least once per week. I really enjoy IPSC, but I think I'll get discouraged and stop going if I don't get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Fortulantly shooting is one of those sports where your ability depends solely on you. I'd recommend taking a class from a pro...we are holding a class by Max and Travis is conjunction with the Targeting Education match in Michigan in the beginning of June that it would be worth your time to look into. I'd also recommend at the next local match you shoot, shoot with the local top gun and try and get his advice on certain things throughout the day. Getting out of C class is all about getting your hits. Buy Brian's book if you haven't already and also buy Steve Anderson's book and begin dry firing religiously. If you do those things it is just about impossible to not get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I got really frustrated with the lack of help at our local club and the prohibitive costs of attending classes with the top shooters. I posted on the forum and someone invited me down to train in their neck of the woods. Best money ever spent and made a great connections too. Ask and you shall receive........eventually. What State are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 No question that a class from a pro will help. The other thing that REALLY helped me make the jump from B to A was getting into a regular dryfire practice shedule. just my opinion, but I would say that 70% of the time the gun is in your hands it should be dryfiring, and only 30% of the time should it be going bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high ground Posted March 16, 2005 Author Share Posted March 16, 2005 I'm in SE VA so I have Blackwater and Tactical Shooting Acadamy around here. I know some people that have been to both and they recommend TSA. I have shot with Todd Jarret, John Benton and Daniel Horner, and they have given me pointers that helped out a bit, but I think several hours of intesive training would help. Thanks, I think I'll be signing up for a class once I get my work schedule figured out. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I hooked up with Lovestoshoot in Oregon, so unless you want to fly......... He knows what my goals are and checks to make sure I am doing what I need to do in order to improve. Pretty no nonsense guy who demands as much out of you as your expectations warrant (careful what you ask for). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 If you are self motivated, the most bang for the buck would be Burkett's or Avery's videos, this forum, and Brian's book. Those resources will get you to where you want to go, without costing an arm and a leg. As far as buying a couple cases of ammo, forget that and get a Dillon from Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 The other thing that REALLY helped me make the jump from B to A was getting into a regular dryfire practice shedule. Amen to that! As a C classer on the way out to B, I've seen the most improvement with Matt B's videos and Steve Anderson's dryfire book. They are great combo. Matt B's videos are the next best thing to a lesson from a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Hands down, personal instruction. Don't forget the Barnhart Videos he has a lot of good stuff to say. Brian's book is a must have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 "Fortulantly ..." I kinda like Jake's take on the spelling of 'fortunately"....Meanwhile: I recently decided to quit doing league action and pursue TRAINING, supervised practices, and classes with one of our A-Class shooters who's offering some soon. Heck with wasting money on public humiliation and no progress. I want "Learnin'"...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Try video taping yourself in practice. You can slow down parts and pay attention to what YOU are doing and then correct them. It's the next best thing to having someone else watch you and you can see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Don't spend any money. Just shoot the A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 4 years of shooting regularly and practicing once a week hasn't gotten you where you want to be yet. I suspect you were like me and got into a routine. The routine was to shoot as I always have and expect change. Definition of insanity. Doing the same ting over and over but expecting a different outcome. I was in the trap of practicing what I was good at. Don't want to look bad in front of the buddies or at the range do ya ? Well I purposedly forced myself out of my comfort zone. I practiced those things I hated. I forced myself to log my practice and critique it. I bought Matt;s videos and started applying those principles in the "how to shoot faster" video. I implemented 30 mins of dryfire a day. I shot more reactive targets and dissappearing targets that forced my sped increase. I am now scheduled to take my first 2 day class next month. has it helped. I used a Kimber Ultra Compact II from Pancake holster and moved from Novice to Marksman to Shaprshooter (IDPA) in 4 months after years of being in a rut. I was also classed as a C shooter in USPSA but haven't shot that discipline lately. Shake up the routine and force a change. Hope this helps, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 standles is right... One of the things I KNOW will improve my shooting is to practice the target stages that have proven to be point-sucking stages and get better at THOSE. It works. Just over last weekend, I discovered a small-but-fabulous tip on a moving/retreating target thing (only 6 seconds to shoot it) that made the stage SOOOO much easier it was scary. My score improved tremendously. So, I work a lot on the 'tough' targets... almost to a fault--neglecting to get REALLY good on the EASY ones... which I've been known to bungle under the buzzer. Gotta practice them ALL, it seems. But, yes, don't neglect the tough ones. You'll feel better for it when the buzzer goes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Yeah that is a good point. A year ago I wasn't comforatable shooting targets past 20 yards....now I am totally comforatable and confident when shooting targets out to 50 or even 100 yards with a pistol. Practice what you are weak in and it will become a strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoonie Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Brian, I took the two day course from Frank Garcia and it made all the difference in the world. You get to learn the correct way to shoot of course, but more importantly, you will get a series of drills to practice that are tailored to your needs. Knowing what and how to practice is what will dramatically increase you abilities. Best of Luck, and don't forget to dryfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 A few random thoughts, based on my past experience... - I made it to A-class in Open w/ little focused live fire practice. Mostly dryfire, with approx. 3-5 matches per month (3-4 2 stage indoor matches, 1-2 5 stage outdoor matches). - I made a very quick jump to Master (< 6 months) following a 1 day class w/ Burkett, and addition of 200-300 rounds per week of livefire practice, in addition to dryfire routine and local matches. - I felt like my skills made a quantum jump after the class and after starting to livefire, and, if I had to do it over again (and had the cash at the time), I'd have taken the class around C-B class area, and started phasing in live fire practice. I feel I would have progressed more quickly this way. A short class focused on building proper technique is the key - you need a gutcheck that you're not going to have to tear everything down to build up again... - Dryfire is not a substitute for livefire practice - they complement each other. Money spent on focused livefire practice is money well spent (keyword - focused!). I always had a focus area for the day (reloads, box to box movement, shoot under a table, etc), and would break that down into individual drills and then build it through the practice. - agree with standles, SiG Lady, and Jake - practice the stuff you hate and/or find hard. I used to start w/ a 50-yard standards of some flavor for a warmup, and progressively moved into speed exercises, but would occasionally mix it up to keep it interesting. That being said - take the time, too, to make sure that you've got sturdy equipment that's going to last and allow you to perform at A-class or better, for now. That implies a stable holster and mag pouch platform/setup, accurate and reliable blaster, etc. I don't know if that helps, but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I went from "D" to "B" in a year after a class from Burkett. HIs videos are quite good. But if you can take a class from him it is worth it. I heard someone once say a class from Matt is good for a one class improvement. I thought it was BS. Regardless, I was still willing to take the class. Well I jumped two classes and shooting for "A" this year. Actually, I would like to take another one from him soon. Call him! Yu can not go wrong. He is a great guy, a great instructor/communicator, and can diagnose areas for improvement exceptionally well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Don't spend any money. Just shoot the A's. OOOOoooH. That is the secret I haven't been able to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Maybe the best way is to shoot for a while and figure out what your strengths and weaknesses are. Can you cover a lot of ground quickly or do you need a more methodical approach? Like MM said, get the points on the target, however long it takes, and see where you can improve. Work on your weaknesses and try to learn about yourself. See how far you can go. If you get to an impass, try a class with someone who suits your style. By that time, you should have an idea..whether it is agressive, finesse, a tactician or somewhere in between. Jerry Barnhart has a very agressive style, Doug Koenig is more finesse, for example. Or maybe a local shooter. If you have an idea of what you need then the instructor will be able to help you more efffectively, especially if you are learning from someone who you identify with. Good instructors don't teach you how they do something, they teach you how to teach yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Getting out of C class is all about getting your hits. Matt's dvd's, Ron Avery's videos, shoot groups of less than 3" at 25 yards, and practice. Then take Todd's course. Living that close you'd be nuts not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high ground Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Lots of good advice. I've been wanting the Burkett videos, but I'm wanting to allocate my money wisely so I'm looking for the best starting point. There are a couple of "A" class shooters around and I think I could get them to do some one on one training. My weaknesses seem to be target acquisition/ decision making and getting the front sight lined up quickly and calling the shot and shooting a make up or moving on. I look for the hole before reengaging. I do okay moving forward or side to side, but suck going backwards. Reloads could use a bit of work too. I take my eyes off target to reload then have to find my target again before going bang. Lots of excess movement around barricades wasting time. Wow, when I list them all like that, I suck. No wonder I'm a struggling "C". I'll be at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 High Ground I gotta submit my $.02 and rest assured it'll be a little different. You sound like you're getting your percentage from match results versus your actual percentage on classifier scores through the USPSA. This is good in my opinion. I guess my question would be what is your goal? If you want to get out of "C" class and move up into B, A, M or GM then a structured approach via video, book and classes are a good idea. Generally I have to agree that all of these are good ideas regardless. I've said it many times though, and I'm sticking to my guns here too. My best teaching tool in the early years were Lenny McGill's nationals tapes. They taught me how to shoot matches. My goal was to win matches - so it worked out. I believe they are relatively cheap and the thing you can do is tape yourself at a match then compare the similarities between how you shoot and how the big dogs shoot. Learn the differences and where you feel like you are falling short, then practice that. Read Brian's book and the combination of those two things, add in 15 minutes of dry fire 5 nights a week, and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish. Clearly I'm into long posts today - but it is what it is so I'm going to ride this bike a little longer. I make the nationals tapes suggestion because that's how I learn. You may not learn that way - so it may be a bad idea. I remember taking calculus classes in college and really struggling with how the instructor was telling me how to make things work.Eventually I learned that the best way for me to "get it" was to take an equation with the correct answer, and work my own way through it. Do it a couple of times so my thought process was sound, then continue to re-apply and make certain that I wasn't missing something. If that's how you work - then pick up a nationals tape (I recommend the 1990 Nationals - an epic battle between Rob and Jerry) and learn what the experts are showing you. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoBon100 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I like the Burkett DVDs (Vol 1-3 and Vol 4) and also purchased a couple of the Barnhart DVDs. You can get Barnhart's separately now from Brownell's. You used to have to buy the entire set of tapes. Brian's book is the very first thing I bought and I've highlighted almost the entire book. It is that good. Another good book I have is "Shooting From Within" by J. Michael Plaxco but I understand that it is hard to find now. I'm a Class C shooter in Limited with USPSA. I took a 3-day class from Todd Jarrett. Todd is a great guy and I did improve somewhat but if I had it to do over again now I wouldn't take the class. I just didn't feel it was worth what I paid. I'm not trying to talk you out of it if that is where you're headed. Read Brian's book, get the videos and practice what they teach, follow these good folks' recommendations for dry fire and LOTS of practice then see if you need to spend the money on a class. Patience grasshopper! You can buy a new gun for what you'll spend on a class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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