New Trojan Problem

[Rising Sight]

I picked up a used STI Trojan today. On my way home I grabbed a box of Winchester White Box 180gr. I got home and loaded up my magazines(Tripp 10 round) and started shooting.

I am thinking that there may be an extractor problem and just wanted to see if I could get some advice from some people that are a little more knowledgable than me about this sort of thing.

The bullets are nose diving into the bottom of the feed ramp. I looked at one of the bullets after it nose dived into the feed ramp and there was a dent in the bullet shaped exactly like the bottom of the feed ramp. So, I feel like its pretty safe to say that they are hitting the bottom of the feed ramp.

I looked at my cases and on the face of every case there is a mark that looks like the extractor is shaving brass from them. And there is a mark where it looks like the ejector is hitting the case pretty hard( I assume that this may be because the extractor is holding onto the cases so tight).

Any suggestions would really be appreciated. Thanks in advance to anybody that replies.

[Merlin Orr]

Kinda like this? My Trojan .40 does this to every round - first or tenth in the mag.

[Rising Sight]

Exactly like that,Merlin. Do you have any suggestions for trying to fix this?

Thanks for the photos.

[Merlin Orr]

I ran 200+ through the gun today with no failures of any kind. But - every time I unloaded a round out of the tube it looked like those shown above. The marks/cuts look like the bottom of the ramp but I am unsure if this is the true cause of the cuts. I have no clue as to where to start or what to do to solve this.

Added.

Oh yea - I tried lengths from factory to 1.21 with no apparent difference - all marked the same.

[Rising Sight]

I was getting those same marks, but I was using FMJ ammo. Maybe the lead bullets have more give to them so they don't stick like mine were.

Merlin, does the face of your cases look like there is brass scraped away on them?

[Merlin Orr]

Have to look tomorrow. It was dark when I left my range and I left my brass to pick up later.

[MikeFoley]

I have the same problem with the first round in every mag nose diving. The gun ran perfect on a mixture of mags and ammo lengths until recently. This usually only happens on the first round when loading it after the LAMR command, but it did happen as a jam once in a steel challenge stage. I don't have any Tripp mags, but was gonna try the STI specific ones since I tried Clyde's regular Tripp mag with the same issues. I am currently using 3 Wilson 47D, 1 Mecgar, 1 Shooting Star, 1 Metalform .40, and 1 Metalform 10mm. All of these worked with 8 in them prior to hardchrome(never with 9), and most of them nosedive now with 8. My OAL is 1.145, but I tried Vikings501's 1.175 stuff with the same results. HELP!

[Byron Simpson]

I used to have a similar problem with my .45 Trojan after I replaced the factory mag catch with a Wilson extended. The factory one was too short for me, but the extended Wilson let the mags sit lower in the frame and then the problem started. The factory STI mag catch holds the mags VERY high in the frame.

Tripp mags weren't available yet, so I took matters into my own hands. I lowered the feedramp buy about .005 into the frame. All problems solved. I also radiused the bottom of the extractor hook, set it for the proper tension and polished the breechface. Now it runs perfect and feeds anything from my 10 round CMC PowerMags.

[bountyhunter]

I have the same problem with the first round in every mag nose diving.  HELP!

The Trojan frame is known for locking the mag in a shade high with respect to the slide. On a full magazine, it can smash the stack down enough that the nose does not come up when the slide comes forward.

On my Trojan .40, I filed the locking slots in the magazine to allow it to ride about .025" lower. It would not feed without this mod, YMMV.

[Merlin Orr]

I have the same problem with the first round in every mag nose diving.  HELP!

The Trojan frame is known for locking the mag in a shade high with respect to the slide. On a full magazine, it can smash the stack down enough that the nose does not come up when the slide comes forward.

On my Trojan .40, I filed the locking slots in the magazine to allow it to ride about .025" lower. It would not feed without this mod, YMMV.

Could not this be accomplished by using another mag catch - isn't the STI a little higher than other brands? Hate to start fooling with my Tripp STI specific mags...

[Rising Sight]

The Trojan frame is known for locking the mag in a shade high with respect to the slide. On a full magazine, it can smash the stack down enough that the nose does not come up when the slide comes forward.

On my Trojan .40, I filed the locking slots in the magazine to allow it to ride about .025" lower. It would not feed without this mod, YMMV.

I noticed that when I put an empty magazine in that it fits kinda tight. That would be a really simple fix. I think I will try that on one of my magazines.

[Rising Sight]

That didn't solve the problem.

[bountyhunter]

I have the same problem with the first round in every mag nose diving.  HELP!

The Trojan frame is known for locking the mag in a shade high with respect to the slide. On a full magazine, it can smash the stack down enough that the nose does not come up when the slide comes forward.

On my Trojan .40, I filed the locking slots in the magazine to allow it to ride about .025" lower. It would not feed without this mod, YMMV.

Could not this be accomplished by using another mag catch - isn't the STI a little higher than other brands? Hate to start fooling with my Tripp STI specific mags...

I've heard some people change the mag catch to one that holds "lower". Don't know what brand to recommend. I bought an aftermarket catch with oversized release button and it held the mag at the same height.

[bountyhunter]

That didn't solve the problem.

It's possible that the mag springs are weak, as they are what holds the nose up. Also, the follwoer design may be different. I have only used Mecgar and CMC power mags in my Trojan .40 and I was able to get both to feed OK.

I will say on my Para .40, I had to cut the feedramp a little to get the "entry area" lower because it was jamming nose into the bottom, which is what is marking the heads of your slugs. That gfun fed with a noticeable "jerk" as the rounds slammed into the lower flat surface of the ramp and then bounced back and were pushed up and in (if I was lucky). Some of the ones with a weak crimp had the slugs forced back in the case a touch.

However, doing a cut down on the ramp to lower the "entry ramp" edge requires cutting into the throat a bit and taking away a little "coverage area" near the rim of the case.

Not sure what to suggest, but on problem feeders I usually do a "slow cycle" test by hand with live ammo to find the "hitch points" to address. Be careful if you do this (you can remove the firing pin if you want). It sounds like as the slide comes forward, it is causing the round to rotate its nose down and it inpacts the bottom of the feed ramp. If so, you may have to lower the "angle surface" of the ramp to where the round will catch it. This assumes there is enough ramp material there to do this.

Good luck.

[Rising Sight]

I called STI today and then called Tripp Research. I talked with Virgil Tripp and he told me that he could fix the problem. I think I am going to send it too him and let him take care of it.

[Merlin Orr]

I called STI today and then called Tripp Research. I talked with Virgil Tripp and he told me that he could fix the problem. I think I am going to send it too him and let him take care of it.

So what did STI have to say about the problem? My Trojan .40 was tuned by Mr Tripp before I got it. Hmmmm.....

[MikeFoley]

Mine just came back from Tripp where it was hardchromed. If I had only known!

[Rising Sight]

So what did STI have to say about the problem? My Trojan .40 was tuned by Mr Tripp before I got it. Hmmmm.....

I talked with Chris at STI and he told me that the problem should be covered under the warranty. He gave me Virgil Tripp's number and had me call him too see if there was an easy fix to get the gun too run with his mags. Chris told me to call him back after I talked with Virgil, but I couldn't get back in touch with Chris when I called back.

I probably should see if STI will cover the price of the work that Virgil will do before I send it too him.

Virgil told me that the problem with the Trojan .40 is in the feed ramp. He said that he will TIG weld the feed ramp and reshape it so that it will feed better.He also works on the feed ramp area in the frame. He told me that he has done about 20 succesful jobs like this on Trojan .40s.

Apparently it is a very common problem with this particular pistol.

[Merlin Orr]

Mine just came back from Tripp where it was hardchromed. If I had only known!

No sh*t! The previous owner had the one I presently own hardchromed and tuned by by Mr Tripp before I bought it. It is such a nice smooth gun I may go ahead and get the fix to the ramp done. I am interested in hearing what VT tells Gear Head and time of repair and costs.

[Rising Sight]

I am interested in hearing what VT tells Gear Head and time of repair and costs.

Sorry, Virgil did tell me. $75 for the job and $46 to send it back too you. He said he would want to keep the pistol for a week. You will have to send the pistol with all the mags that you will be using in it.

[chuckbradley]

I dont know about the feed ramp. I used to sell Tripp magazines and he recalled all I had. Said the 40's were too finicky and the only way to make them run was to work them to the gun. I wouldnt be so hasty as to blame the gun. I built a caspian 40 single stack and had a terrible time with mags. I got McCormicks and Wilsons. Neither worked. Nose dive on the first round. I called both companies and they both told me they quit selling the 40/10mm mags because they wouldnt work. McCormick started selling them again, dont know about wilson. I ended up getting some metalform mags in 10mm and they work pretty good but not 100%. I heard Robbie uses the McCormick 10 round 45's for his 40 SS mags. Just pinches the lips a littel if needed. I tried those and they nose dive on the first round also. I load my 40's long thats why i use 10mm mags. If you can take the first round out and it feeds then its not the gun its the mags and I cant tell you what it is with Single stack 40 mags but they are a headache.

[MikeFoley]

OK, I just lightly filed on the mag catch enough to shine up the hardchrome, and tried all of my mags again. The results are from hand cycling the slide, which is where my problems have existed, at the LAMR command. I have also only loaded 8 in the mags, regardless of capacity. The reason for this is that they have always nose dived the ninth round, always.

Metalform 10mm didn't work the first try, but with one stroke of the file in the notch, worked for the next three tries 3/3.

MecGar mag that came with the gun worked 3/3.

Stainless mag with shooting star follower worked 3/3.

Metalform 40S&W mag follower with bump on it worked 3/3.

Wilson 47D worked 3/3.

Second Wilson 47D worked 3/3.

Third Wilson 47D didn't work the first try, but with one stroke of the file in the notch, worked for the next three tries, 3/3.

Tripp Cobramag HV B9-MG worked 3/3.

Not enough testing to determine real reliability, but I will continue to test by hand, and shoot this gun at steel challenge until it proves itself enough to run in USPSA. Chuck's last post lowered my confidence level even more, but I am trying to keep in mind that some guys are running this gun with various mags at 100%.

[DougCarden]

Fo-man, check your CMC followers periodically, I had to go over my mags this week and tweak up the follower back up to where they should be. I do this about once a year.....I would bend up the top leg of the follower a little and try that with the follower. Before I hear about the superiority of Wilsons, I used them, and had to replace the springs and followers much more than I have with the CMCs....Putting new springs in and bending up the followers is all I have to do, and FWIW when I used the 10mm mags with 10mm, they ran fine in my Pingun, no nosediving, making me wonder about the feedramp on these guns......If the extractor tension is correct and the breechface is true, the round shouldnt be dipping like that unless it is hitting on the frame ramp without the correct angle.....

Good luck,

DougC

[MikeFoley]

Thanks DougC.

[XRe]

Got the same issues on my new baby - and I think I've got a good look at what the feed ramp issue might be - basically, the frame and the bottom of the ramp don't match up real well, and that's right where the round starts to feed. Hasn't touched the extractor at that point...

My ramp is rough, too, though - got some clean up to do on it, etc... More later, gotta go to a wedding