EricW Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I know this is going to sound wrong, but if you have to wonder if you should be carrying a SA cocked and locked, you should be carrying a DA. My first carry pistol was a full-size 4506 for this very reason. I wasn't the most tactical guy on the block, but I felt very secure. SA is a heads-up gun. And there are simply some things SA cocked and locked doesn't do well. Belt packs and glove boxes come to mind immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmist10 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'm not interested in a revolver so that won't be on the poll. Smith and Wesson 340 PD (concealed hammer) is about the most comfortable and concealable CCW weapons made. But I'm partial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 While I would love a SA as a carry gun, I would feel bad doing to ANY 1911 what I would be willing to do to a Glock in a heart beat. Not that the 1911 might not take the abuse, but it is like use a Stratovarious (SP?) for firewood, when I could use a 2x4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmist10 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Self defense instructors hate the 1911 platform. I'm betting some people that teach self defense classes are a little worried about the liability of telling a novice to carry cocked and locked. There are guys I shoot with that have shot competitively for many years that until recently swore this was flirting with death and chided me until I took the round out of the chamber...and this was while holstered and walking with them in the woods! Eric is right. If you are worried in the least you should carry a DA. I traded a gun that I orginally bought for CCW even before Ohio let us apply. It had some small mechanical defects at first (safety plunger came loose) and didn't like some of my reloads later (while practicing) and I sold it off because I wouldn't trust my life with it. The same should apply to anyone considering a CCW. Use only what you feel completely confident to defend your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 1911s 1) Are fragile/don't work. I don't really buy this with the modern stuff, but you have to admit until Kimber changed everybody's game, there was some crap. Those guns are still around so carrying one may not be a good idea. You had to spend big $$ or live with a smith to get a reliable example (see #2) Myth Busted! The 1911 was only selected by the Army after numerous torture tests. The basic M1911 and later M1911A1 are sound and reliable. 2)Are expensive. To get around #1, you have to spend lots of cash. Again, more modern guns are better, but can you really get a new $500 1911 that is as reliable as a Glock? Yes. $500 Reliable 1911 3) Have lots of things to snag. Like what? Adjustable target sights? These are not pocket pistols. I have yet to have one snag. 4) Have low capacity. My G36 suffers from this, but it touches on another religious argument of 9mm vs 45ACP. If you carry a 9 you get a minimum of 10 rounds. Maybe for a S.W.A.T team. I am quite happy carrying 8+1 without a spare mag for normal daily carry. If the leader of the pack exclaims "You can't get all of us" just shoot him and see who volunteers to be next. 5) Can be defeated with by grabbing the hammer/getting clothing or debris or skin between the hammer and the firing pin. If the person who needs to be shot gets that close and you have not yet shot them please see me about some private Aikido lessons next time before it's too late. 6) Are heavy. mmmmmm sort of - a good alloy 3" is not too bad. I carry a full size steel Kimber all the time and do not find it nearly as heavy as most girl's purses. 7) Are complicated/difficult to use in time of stress. The saftey must be taken off and the grip saftey depressed for the gun to fire. Most of us who compete in IDPA or IPSC have, at on time or another, had a problem with the gun not firing because of the grip saftey. I think I can cure all of that with 15 minutes of instruction and practice. 8) Because of the above, you have to practice religiously to be good and reliable with a 1911 (i.e. be LE or military), otherwise a 1911 is a problem. You have to practice religiously to be good and reliable with anything. Most of us who compete in IDPA or IPSC know LE or military folks who bemoan the fact that except for those LE and military who shoot IDPA or IPSC or just love to practice, far too many LE and military personel have no business carrying a gun. Common recs that I hear is a DA covered hammer revolver or Glock. The little DA covered hammer pistols make great pocket pistols. Glock makes a fine reliable gun as well. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 On a carry gun??? I hope every one has a working grip saftey on the 1911 style guns. I don't know about that Merlin. It was added at the request of the Army. The Browning High Power has no grip saftey. My CZ 75 can be carried cocked and locked but has no grip saftey. My revolver has no grip safety or thumb safety. Glocks have no safety at all unless you count that little safety lever in the middle of the trigger that you have to engage in order to pull the trigger that keeps you from pulling the trigger unless you pull it????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I know this is going to sound wrong, but if you have to wonder if you should be carrying a SA cocked and locked, you should be carrying a DA. My first carry pistol was a full-size 4506 for this very reason. I wasn't the most tactical guy on the block, but I felt very secure. SA is a heads-up gun. And there are simply some things SA cocked and locked doesn't do well. Belt packs and glove boxes come to mind immediately. Great advice. I sort of laughed at myself, because I can't make myself throw a 1911 in the glove box. A 5-shot revolver is always in there instead. Even though I first learned from Jeff Cooper's books, I have come to believe that DA pistols and Glocks are many times a better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I carry a full size steel Kimber all the time and do not find it nearly as heavy as most girl's purses. You have been carrying girls purses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I have "read" that the Isreali's carry their pistols empty chamber and train to rack the slide when drawing. I doubt if it is that much slower with practice. I carry DA, loaded chamber in a pocket holster, every day, everywhere. No Speedos though ,that would scare the hell out of everyone that knows me,that is, me in a Speedo. I wouldn't hesitate to carry SA cocked and locked if I could conceal it. The Para LDA's seem like the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscron2000 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'd throw in a vote for DA. I've carried both, as with most permit holders. But when I bump into things when I'm carrying my SA cocked and locked, I can't help flinching waiting for it to go off. I guess I'm just nervous in public with it. I'm completely at home with a SA. I shoot a STI .38 super Open gun at matches.... A DA is hard to beat all the way around. And definetly have one chambered. I'm probably comiting a sin saying this, but, I almost always carry a .38 special snub nose in the front pocket. It's very comforable and I have lightning fast 3.5 second draws from the pocket. Carrying something is better than carrying nothing at all. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Twix, I actually have a video of the technique...I guarantee they lose at the MINIUMUM .5 -.75 of a second with a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I carry a full size steel Kimber all the time and do not find it nearly as heavy as most girl's purses. You have been carrying girls purses? Sure! Sometimes it's just being polite and helping the lady out. Sometimes it's just an excuse to practice with the Kimber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I compete with a 5" 1911 so I carry a 3" 1911 (cocked and locked). I think you should carry the same type of action that you compete with. If called upon, the gun should come up without conscious effort because your focus should be entirely on the problem at hand! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 SA - Cocked and Locked (One Pipe) DA - Filly loaded (One in Pipe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'll post this for those who love revolvers, I will also have a carry gun as a revolver. Time tested. Ability to conceal even in the middle of summer with shorts and a tshirt. I was just more interested in peoples opinions about carry gun in either SA or DA. I'm actually leaning towards the Para LDA single stack. One of the guys brought up a very valid point. If you ever use it you won't see the gun for a very long time. I'll have to take that into consideration. Hopefully that will never be the case. I actually have to borrow a gun to qualify with this weekend. My other choice would be take my Limited STI Edge 40. I can imagine the frowns if I would. But not really concerned about that. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I also have and carry the NAA Guardian for the same reason stated by Kimel. Fits right in jeans or Dockers. I can carry it inside my Speedo as it is lost and totally insignificant beside my "Big Gun." GOOD one. That got a LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I carry a full size steel Kimber all the time and do not find it nearly as heavy as most girl's purses. You have been carrying girls purses? Sure! Sometimes it's just being polite and helping the lady out. Sometimes it's just an excuse to practice with the Kimber.... If I carried a girl's purse, I'd carry a 5" 1911, there'd be plenty of room in the purse. Hell, I might carry a 44 mag. Deset Eagle, with all that room. Sorry Dale. I'm glad we've had a little fun with this, as well as a good exchange of information. I thought it might be ugly. Benos world rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 -I've taken several self defense classes and they hate the 1911 platform. Man, we're obviously going to different classes. For some socio-cultural reason I don't pretend to understand (but it probably has something to do with the fact this is a very rich area for IPSC shooting - I've been told the Renton IPSC club is one of the oldest in the US), the 1911 is a VERY popular carry/self-defense gun in Washington state. When John Farnam was here a few years ago, he looked at the class's guns and said, "I haven't seen this many cocked and locked 1911s in one place since the last time I went to Gunsite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I compete with a 5" 1911 so I carry a 3" 1911 (cocked and locked).I think you should carry the same type of action that you compete with. If called upon, the gun should come up without conscious effort because your focus should be entirely on the problem at hand! Ed I agree and struggled with this very thought. That's why I'm switching to the Glock in IDPA. I just loooove the 1911 trigger and grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 If I carried a girl's purse, I'd carry a 5" 1911, there'd be plenty of room in the purse.Hell, I might carry a 44 mag. Deset Eagle, with all that room. You say that now, but there are the various makeup and hygene products, the extra ammo, cleaning kit, squibrod and hammer, cell phone, notebook and pen, address book, extra fiber optic rods, lighter, snacks, small water bottle, latest issue of Front Sight and Cosmopolitan, slideglide....pretty soon you're gonna need a bigger purse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 7) Are complicated/difficult to use in time of stress. The saftey must be taken off and the grip saftey depressed for the gun to fire. Most of us who compete in IDPA or IPSC have, at on time or another, had a problem with the gun not firing because of the grip saftey. Actually, if you shoot with the "IPSC-style" straight thumbs grip, taking off the thumb safety on a 1911 adds exactly zero time, and requires exactly zero thought. The safety simply comes off as the hands meet and the gun is pushed out to the target. For years I carried a 1911 with a pinned grip safety. No problems with the grip safety failing to come off there! Then I switched to a 1911 with the grip safety "sensitized" so that it's still 100 percent functional, it'll pass an armorer's check with flying colors, but it disengages with very little inward movement. No problems there, either. However, I'll be the first to admit that a totally stock, out-of-the-box 1911 (depending on the individual gun or gun maker, of course) can be a pain in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 OK, I know this will start a war, but Flyin40 asked. Please don't let this degenerate in to name calling. Nah, that sort of stuff doesn't happen at www.brianenos.com. And in the unlikely event some clueless individual didn't get the word, the mods are all over it. Civility....wotta concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I know this is going to sound wrong, but if you have to wonder if you should be carrying a SA cocked and locked, you should be carrying a DA. Makes total sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 There are guys I shoot with that have shot competitively for many years that until recently swore this was flirting with death and chided me until I took the round out of the chamber...and this was while holstered and walking with them in the woods! Just out of curiosity, in what sort of competition did these worthies engage? And what sort of guns were they using? I'll bet it wasn't IPSC or IDPA with a 1911 or they'd know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 AikiDale, I had no idea you carried a girl's purse. And have the cojones to admit it. Impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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