TK Customs 929 Moons Experience

[BallisticianX]

In my quest to prevent binding rounds in my 929 (aka the Taurus trapped in a S&W body) I changed to a slower powder and bought new Starline brass. Range brass was proving to be problematic if it had a bulge (thanks Mr. Glock). So to accent my pretty & shiny new starline brass I bought the TK Customs tight .035" thick .341" ID SS 8 shot moonclips made just for starline. They were pricey at $74.95 for 10 but what the hell, gotta spend money to get quality. Upon getting them 2 weeks ago and loading some rounds into them they were way to tight. After muscling the brass in the clip they would not even spin freely and were jammed solid. It was a bigger chore to pop them out with a demooner tool. Bottom line is they are just to tight at .341". I called TK and they said there has been a problem with the fit lately and told me that they are thinking of opening up the mooclips to .343ish to solve the problem but nothing was final and no solution would be available for awhile. So he suggested on exchanging them for there standard .035" thick SS clips and assured me they would work and hold it firm enough for reliable speed loads. So I exchanged them and got the standards in my hands about a week ago. After loading some rounds in them I felt they were a bit loose and called them again to talk it over. I was told they will work fine and try them in a match and I would be happy. So I ran them in a match yesterday to try them out. My suspicions of being to loose were proven. Not happy with the wobbly rounds hanging up on the majority of my reloads. So I called them today to convey these thoughts. I was informed the standard clip was not a good match to the starline, a stark change of information from a week or so ago. SO he goes on to tell me about there just released clip at .040" thick to replace the tight .341" for starline that will hold it firmer and more reliably, so much for the "solution" being awhile huh! Anyway I'm thinking lets change them out and get this right finally. Not so much... I was told because I used them they would not accept them as a return (the lesson here is don't use them even if they tell you to). Well I am not happy. I spent $75 dollars plus shipping to get a product that did not work as intended. I get a second product that did not work as intended. Despite there assurance of the second product doing the job as well as the original product was suppossed to they design and develop an improved product. Bottom line is I did not get what I was told I would. I cant beleive I am expected to accept throwing away money on a product and told to spend more to get what I expected in the first place. Has anyone else had this experience or know of someone who can clear this up. I don't have the budget to keep throwing money away to make this brass work. I certainly dont want to have to abort the starline brass for another brand for even more wasted money..... I am starting to hate this 929 and anything to do with it.......a nightmare of a gun and people!!!

Edited May 4, 2015 by BallisticianX

[mcb]

I will give you $100 for it, right now, in cash.

Have you tried Revolver Supply? I am likely going to get roasted for suggesting someone other than TK but I have been very happy with Revolver Supply moonclips in my 627 especial with Remington Brass. Might be worth ordering a few of their blued and nickle plated just see if they work any better for you.

[BallisticianX]

I will give you $100 for it, right now, in cash.

Have you tried Revolver Supply? I am likely going to get roasted for suggesting someone other than TK but I have been very happy with Revolver Supply moonclips in my 627 especial with Remington Brass. Might be worth ordering a few of their blued and nickle plated just see if they work any better for you.

I have some clips from Revolver Supply. I also have a sample Ranch clip as well. THe Ranch clip looks to be a quality peice as well. Both of them definitely favor Winchester brass for a tight hold. Problem is finding NEW Winchester 9mm brass. I want new brass to prevent any binding issues from buldged or weakened brass. I am not going the used brass route here. Ill sell this POS to you first lol!!

[seanc]

All these revolvers are money pits. Match this clip to this brass, refit the entire thing as it comes from the factory so that it works, etc...

I'm committed to running this thing because the accuracy I am seeing, it is just a hassle getting it ironed out.

I could stay with 38, but thats rebarreling my open gun that just won't shoot a good group. another 2 months and $500 and who knows if it will be good or shit.

[BallisticianX]

This 929 is becoming a legend in it own time as a failure.......the only praise this thing ever got was from whom allows it to bear his name!!

[seanc]

This 929 is becoming a legend in it own time as a failure.......the only praise this thing ever got was from whom allows it to bear his name!!

hah. well, to be fair there are a couple people on here who seem to be having a good time with there 929's so far, and we are more likely to hear the bad than the good, but my case has been that the stuff coming out of smith is flawed. There are people on this forum that have sent them back and S&W scrapped them for being so out of spec.

[mcb]

I will give you $100 for it, right now, in cash.

Have you tried Revolver Supply? I am likely going to get roasted for suggesting someone other than TK but I have been very happy with Revolver Supply moonclips in my 627 especial with Remington Brass. Might be worth ordering a few of their blued and nickle plated just see if they work any better for you.

I have some clips from Revolver Supply. I also have a sample Ranch clip as well. THe Ranch clip looks to be a quality peice as well. Both of them definitely favor Winchester brass for a tight hold. Problem is finding NEW Winchester 9mm brass. I want new brass to prevent any binding issues from buldged or weakened brass. I am not going the used brass route here. Ill sell this POS to you first lol!!

If Ranch moonclips with Winchester brass work well in your 929 have you considered once fired Win brass from a reputable source and a roll sizer or bulge buster setup to size it? You might even find a source like a police department or similar that you know is not using Glocks and no extra sizing would be needed. You only need a few thousand pieces you get it all back in neat piles of eight. That might be a better way to skin that cat.

[aandabooks]

I shoot the occasional match with Tom and his grandson. His grandson runs a 929 and he runs if very well. I have not seen him have any issues. Maybe he is able to change stuff on the fly and make things work.

I got some TK clips for my 627. I have the same tightness issue with Win brass. So tight it won't even rotate. I go my hands on 2k Hornady brass and it fits beautiful. I have some Starline Short Colt brass on the way from a forum member to try out.

[seanc]

brassmanbrass has once fired lots of winchester, only lots of 500 right now, and they are crimped pockets which is a consideration depending on your loading situation. Easy enough to find same headtamp on gunbroker as well.

[revoman]

Hmmm 627 and 38 short colt what a concept. ✌

[BallisticianX]

I hear you about roll sizing but thats some serious money to invest that I can't part with. As far as once fired brass....the risk of buldged brass and having to check and mic it to be sure is not worth the pains in entails. At this point I am not sinking anymore money into high price gadgets or tools regarding this gun. I will relentlessly search for new Winchester brass and buy Ranch clips . Going back on point; I will never send another penny to TK...to be left hanging like that is unexpected from them after all the praise given. None the less it is unacceptable.

[WheelGunHunter]

There is a thread in the revolver section about starline brass and the 929 not working so great together.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=212712

I use Winchester brass (new) and TK custom moon clips for Winchester brass and I only had a problem with powders faster than Win 231. Win 231 makes minor in my 929 without any stickiness and my 929 works great. I don't know how to help you with your moon clip fit problem though. good luck

[ffl]

Buy Ranch Products clips. They work and if you have any problems Steve will fix it.

TK made them for the 929 and rushed them to production. Ranch has been making them for the 929 and other 9mm for years.

just my .02

[revoman]

Didn't the 929 9mm only come out last year toward the end of the year? But H&R made a 929 for years but it is a 22 lr. ☺

[Tom Freeman]

I have 40 or 50 TK moons for my 929. They work perfect with almost all flavors of brass other than RP and PMC.

I roll size all my brass between each reload. Maybe thats why both my 929s run like sewing machines.

[9146gt]

I have 40 or 50 TK moons for my 929. They work perfect with almost all flavors of brass other than RP and PMC.

I roll size all my brass between each reload. Maybe thats why both my 929s run like sewing machines.

I also have 40>50 TK standard moon clips, no issues with all brass except Remington which TK made me custon EDM moon clips to fit the 9K of Rem 9mm cases I have.

I use a standard LEE 9mm sizing die.

Tom

Edited May 5, 2015 by 9146gt

[peterthefish]

I hear you about roll sizing but thats some serious money to invest that I can't part with. As far as once fired brass....the risk of buldged brass and having to check and mic it to be sure is not worth the pains in entails. At this point I am not sinking anymore money into high price gadgets or tools regarding this gun. I will relentlessly search for new Winchester brass and buy Ranch clips . Going back on point; I will never send another penny to TK...to be left hanging like that is unexpected from them after all the praise given. None the less it is unacceptable.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - switch from a Dillon sizing die to just about any other (I use an RCBS). The Dillon sizing dies have a wider mouth to speed up loading and avoid hang ups, at the expense of not sizing as far down the case. I've run mixed range pickup brass of just about every type (except AMERC) through my 929 and have yet to have a round not chamber due to oversized base or have sticky extraction (I use N320 and 147s or 160s).

The stainless TK clips with Win brass seem to be as good a fit as any. Checked out some of the Revolver Supply clips when George Martin was at PSA a couple weeks ago. Didn't see any big improvement in fit.

As far as the issue w TKs customer service, I'll buy those clips from you if you don't want them. Sounds like the poster got some clips that were very tight (as advertised) found them too tight, and then got some that were looser, and wasn't happy with those either.

Unfortunately I don't think that Goldilocks is going to find any just right moonclips anytime soon. I'm gonna shoot this gun through the rest of the summer but I just don't see it working out long term - 38 Starline Short Colt + Stainless TK clips = perfection in 8 shot reloading.

[BallisticianX]

I hear you about roll sizing but thats some serious money to invest that I can't part with. As far as once fired brass....the risk of buldged brass and having to check and mic it to be sure is not worth the pains in entails. At this point I am not sinking anymore money into high price gadgets or tools regarding this gun. I will relentlessly search for new Winchester brass and buy Ranch clips . Going back on point; I will never send another penny to TK...to be left hanging like that is unexpected from them after all the praise given. None the less it is unacceptable.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - switch from a Dillon sizing die to just about any other (I use an RCBS). The Dillon sizing dies have a wider mouth to speed up loading and avoid hang ups, at the expense of not sizing as far down the case. I've run mixed range pickup brass of just about every type (except AMERC) through my 929 and have yet to have a round not chamber due to oversized base or have sticky extraction (I use N320 and 147s or 160s).

The stainless TK clips with Win brass seem to be as good a fit as any. Checked out some of the Revolver Supply clips when George Martin was at PSA a couple weeks ago. Didn't see any big improvement in fit.

As far as the issue w TKs customer service, I'll buy those clips from you if you don't want them. Sounds like the poster got some clips that were very tight (as advertised) found them too tight, and then got some that were looser, and wasn't happy with those either.

Unfortunately I don't think that Goldilocks is going to find any just right moonclips anytime soon. I'm gonna shoot this gun through the rest of the summer but I just don't see it working out long term - 38 Starline Short Colt + Stainless TK clips = perfection in 8 shot reloading.

I am not using a dillon die. I am currently using a Hornady new dimension sizer. I am going to machine a push through base sizer to eraticate the slight "buldge" in my range brass (with the exception of major buldges of which I will discard of course). As far as the .341" clips I got being too tight...it was not conveyed as being "my preference" as being to tight for me, they were outright unusable tight. Almost impossible to insert a case with a mooning tool. It would literally shear deep flats into the extractor groove and the case was locked up...no spin and no give at all. TK agknowledge that as being a "real' problem not consumer preference concerns. As far as the standard clips being to loose, again they allow the round to wobble considerably. Again this is a reality not a preference. As far as you comparing your experience with TK and Win brass to my experince of TK and Starline...your comparing apples to oranges. I am sure Winchester is fine. I prefer Winchester brass but have yet to find new win brass available. And lastly if you said your having no problems with your 929 why do you mention you don't see it working out long term? And whom are you refering to as goldilocks? you lost me on these two.........

[peterthefish]

The Hornady sizing dies suck in my experience. Try an RCBS or a Lee U die. I have plenty of range pickup Win brass (much fired from Glocks) and again, once sized I've never had an issue with a case bulge causing failure to load.

I don't see it working out long term because it doesn't do what I think it sort of promised to - provide a revolver platform I could use for my 9mm Minor loads. The 929;

- needs a significantly higher powder charge to make minor than any auto I own

- mine groups best with .357 size bullets

- needs matching headstamp brass (which means sorting / segregating)

- even with the best brass / moonclip combo is not as fast to load as a 627 with Starline brass and TK stainless clips

The only advantage I see is the titanium cylinder. And since I prefer a heavier trigger than a lot of rev shooters, that doesn't do much for me. I've got an extra 627 cylinder that I'll probably get turned down and fitted for my 929 unless I find something about it to love

The Goldilocks comment means there's really no 'just right' combo of 9mm brass and moonclips out there yet.

If you want to sell the TK clips let me know.

Edited May 6, 2015 by peterthefish

[BallisticianX]

With minor loads I have had no problem with my mine in that respect. Generally revo's require higher charges of the same powder to make a given velocity than a auto of similiar barrel length especially with faster powders. The cylinder gap bleads off just enough to put it at a disadvantage. Faster powders have higher chamber pressures thus more potential bleed off from the gap. I have found slower powders with lower chamber pressures keep my revo's closer to the velocities in my auto's of similiar length barrels. Now throw in different barrel lengths and all bets are off. In my case when comparing my 929 6.5" bbl and my M&P9L 5" bbl with the same load of a 124 Hi-tek coated bullet over 4.3gr WSF I am getting 1,050 avg. fps in the 929 and 1,021 avg. fps in the M&P. I dropped down to 4.0 gr WSF in the 929 to comfortably making 122 pf for ICORE.

As far as accuracy goes I will sya thats where my 929 shines. With 124 gr. at .356" dia. it groups sub 1" at 20 easily. 147gr. at .356" dia. yield the same results.

I have loaded tons of ammo with Hornady sizing dies with great results. A buldged case is hard to rectify with any standard sizing die. A push through is the only effective way. 9mm being tapered adds to the difficulty of push through sizing. I am working on that cure by machining a push through die dimensioned to just work the base. I hear tell the LEE 9mm makarov factory crimp die with a buldge buster kit on it will achieve this....food for thought.

The brass segregation chore is a must with any moonclip operation. Every brand of brass has differing dimensions to match a clip to therefore sorting is a must for best results. I had to search for the best clip/brass combo for my 686+. I will admit the Win/Ranch combo was easier to come up with for a great system for the .38 than the 9mm is proving to be.

As far as speed reloads I feel the 929 will load just as fast as anything when correctly matched brass/clips are used....that being the current problem!

I am not overly thrilled with the 929 in it's factory condition. But since I bought it I have refined many issues and points to where it has alot of promise. I do wish it has a shorter barrel option and to agree with you a stainless cylinder to improve the wear and longevity. I am seeing from posts and first hand that the cylinder is failing prematurely on these things. I witnessed a 929 skipping cylinders after 1500 rounds. I also will be looking to get a 627 cylinder to shorten for the 929 at the end of this season (if mine lasts that is).

[Bosshoss]

Careful A 627 cylinder doesn't have a lot of throat and if you shorten the cylinder it might not have any left. Might cause accuracy issues that short of a throat.

Might be better to leave cylinder full length and shorten barrel and recut forcing cone.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Bosshoss

[seanc]

Egw u die works fine on a 1050 and resizes virtually full length.

It's a little more handle pressure but works just fine.

[peterthefish]

Careful A 627 cylinder doesn't have a lot of throat and if you shorten the cylinder it might not have any left. Might cause accuracy issues that short of a throat.

Might be better to leave cylinder full length and shorten barrel and recut forcing cone.

That's a great point - clearly I haven't thought this all the way through.

[peterthefish]

I have loaded tons of ammo with Hornady sizing dies with great results. A buldged case is hard to rectify with any standard sizing die. A push through is the only effective way. 9mm being tapered adds to the difficulty of push through sizing. I am working on that cure by machining a push through die dimensioned to just work the base. I hear tell the LEE 9mm makarov factory crimp die with a buldge buster kit on it will achieve this....food for thought.

Or use a U Die. But why do it the easy way..?

The brass segregation chore is a must with any moonclip operation. Every brand of brass has differing dimensions to match a clip to therefore sorting is a must for best results. I had to search for the best clip/brass combo for my 686+. I will admit the Win/Ranch combo was easier to come up with for a great system for the .38 than the 9mm is proving to be.

But avoiding that chore was part of the draw of the 929. My brass sorter separates my 9mm from 38 SC, but it can't sort 9mm brass by headstamp. So the 929 adds to my workload vs shooting short colt.

I am not overly thrilled with the 929 in it's factory condition. But since I bought it I have refined many issues and points to where it has alot of promise. I do wish it has a shorter barrel option and to agree with you a stainless cylinder to improve the wear and longevity. I am seeing from posts and first hand that the cylinder is failing prematurely on these things. I witnessed a 929 skipping cylinders after 1500 rounds. I also will be looking to get a 627 cylinder to shorten for the 929 at the end of this season (if mine lasts that is).

I certainly didn't state and didn't mean to imply that a stainless cylinder would improve longevity. It's just an easy way to chamber the gun in short colt. I'd be interested in seeing these prematurely failing cylinders, as one of the advantages of Ti is the lack of peening notches vs stainless. Skipping cylinders are more likely due to worn or improperly fitted stops or weakened stop springs than the notch peening which may cause the issue with stainless cylinders.

[seanc]

as one of the advantages of Ti is the lack of peening notches vs stainless. Skipping cylinders are more likely due to worn or improperly fitted stops or weakened stop springs than the notch peening which may cause the issue with stainless cylinders.

Ti not peening is false.

Also, most likely the skip is because of peening causing a ridge on the lead in side of the notch that cause the stop to jump.

I know because subject 929 OP referred to is mine, it was this past sunday. It is the second Ti cylinder gun I own that started skipping in less than 2k rounds. All of my n frames and several that I have borrowed, to a one, have all peened and started skipping chambers at some point, often more than once.

I apparently have extra special bad luck in this regard, but it is my experience. The lead in side developing a peen/ridge which effectively cause the stop to bounce across the notch was the source of the jump every time and all the reasons you suggest as most likely was never the root cause.

For a few hours after the match I was seriously considering abandoning revolvers.