cas Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 If you register and pay to shoot on Sunday, you should only be allowed on the range on Sunday. If you want on it on Saturday as well you should have to pay again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 If you register and pay to shoot on Sunday, you should only be allowed on the range on Sunday. If you want on it on Saturday as well you should have to pay again. I could not disagree with you more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feegee Dean Matlock Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I know Cowtown is over but, All I know if I am shooting on a Friday and friends or other shooters ask me any questions I will answer dam near anything they want hell I would even tell them how I shot the stage if they wanted to know. Point is just relax be friendly and you will be able to gather as much info as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWChambers Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 As an unofficial spokesman for Cross Timbers I will try to address this. This match is basically set up by two people, Kurt Kauth and Jimmy Davis, as MD volunteers with day jobs. Every weekend and many weekdays using vacation time the month prior to the Cowtown Classic was spent building stages for 14 hour days only to have much of the work ruined by violent thunderstorms three times and causing stages to be rebuilt in different bays. Cross Timbers is mostly active with IDPA and has a strong number IDPA of shooters that are happy to lend a hand in that game, USPSA shooters, not so much, we just do not have that many USPSA only shooter members. On Thursday there were four of us at the range, with the two of us volunteering being old guys over 60 , busting our asses to get final touches done, sloshing through the mud to move stages that were flooded out from the storm two days prior, grading the bays and roads, doing final walkthrough with the RM at the end of the day, and hanging targets for Fridays match. Having Friday shooters walking through, asking questions, etc. would have greatly hampered our efforts and possibly caused us to have half assed stages for the match, that is not an option for this club. That being said, I hope those that got to shoot the Cowtown Classic had a great day and enjoyed the stages. The shooters both days were awesome, reset stages quickly and a joy to run. We hope to see you back next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Dang, if you would avoid a match cause you can't set up shop and muse all day about how good you will shoot the stages. You must not shoot to many matches. Hope Mr.Chambers helped with the issues about not seeing those stages. Oh if you want to see all of the stages first hand and even watch the swingers, get involved and help them set up the matches instead of saying what you may or may NOT do. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 If you register and pay to shoot on Sunday, you should only be allowed on the range on Sunday. If you want on it on Saturday as well you should have to pay again. I could not disagree with you more....Agreed. That's actually so wrong it's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach1soldier Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I got there Friday at 1 and had time to check out the stages for an hour and then leave. All the staff were friendly and didn't care as long as we stayed out of their way when staff shooters came through. This was a fun (but very challenging) match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 As an unofficial spokesman for Cross Timbers I will try to address this. This match is basically set up by two people, Kurt Kauth and Jimmy Davis, as MD volunteers with day jobs. Every weekend and many weekdays using vacation time the month prior to the Cowtown Classic was spent building stages for 14 hour days only to have much of the work ruined by violent thunderstorms three times and causing stages to be rebuilt in different bays. Cross Timbers is mostly active with IDPA and has a strong number IDPA of shooters that are happy to lend a hand in that game, USPSA shooters, not so much, we just do not have that many USPSA only shooter members. On Thursday there were four of us at the range, with the two of us volunteering being old guys over 60 , busting our asses to get final touches done, sloshing through the mud to move stages that were flooded out from the storm two days prior, grading the bays and roads, doing final walkthrough with the RM at the end of the day, and hanging targets for Fridays match. Having Friday shooters walking through, asking questions, etc. would have greatly hampered our efforts and possibly caused us to have half assed stages for the match, that is not an option for this club. That being said, I hope those that got to shoot the Cowtown Classic had a great day and enjoyed the stages. The shooters both days were awesome, reset stages quickly and a joy to run. We hope to see you back next year! I certainly understand that this is a volunteer Sport and I am grateful for those that have the time to do so. I've done it in the past and will do it again in the future. I can tell you first hand that we had Saturday shooters in our way on several occasions and it hampered our efforts as well. It irritated me that they had the opportunity to do so. The match and stages were great. Those who put the match together did an awesome job, three years in a row...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 When a major match charges a $150 entry fee and has 200 Shooters, there should be plenty of "Extra Money" to hire people to setup stages. The whole argument of there not being enough volunteer help when the match income is $30K+ really does not hold much weight. Even if the stage setup process was performed using 100% volunteer resources, if the MD didn't wrangle up a sufficient amount of help well before the "Bust your ass" setup days that is all their fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 When a major match charges a $150 entry fee and has 200 Shooters, there should be plenty of "Extra Money" to hire people to setup stages. The whole argument of there not being enough volunteer help when the match income is $30K+ really does not hold much weight. Even if the stage setup process was performed using 100% volunteer resources, if the MD didn't wrangle up a sufficient amount of help well before the "Bust your ass" setup days that is all their fault. Thank you Charlie for this moment of drama... I think we had this discussion last year, do you really want to get into the budget again? I think you know 1. we do not have 200 paid entries as staff does not pay, and 2. these matches are a break even proposition by the time everything is paid for. Last years CTC was in the red, this years may be in the black but if it is it will not be by much. Further, If we did hire folks to do setup then there would be bitching we robbed the prize table or we gypped the shooters in some other area. The gentlemen in charge of the stages had resources at their disposal, if those volunteers chose to bust their asses for the benefit of the shooters then that is their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 When a major match charges a $150 entry fee and has 200 Shooters, there should be plenty of "Extra Money" to hire people to setup stages. The whole argument of there not being enough volunteer help when the match income is $30K+ really does not hold much weight. Even if the stage setup process was performed using 100% volunteer resources, if the MD didn't wrangle up a sufficient amount of help well before the "Bust your ass" setup days that is all their fault. Big Panda, please point me in the direction of the magic money printing machine? I'll gladly take the $$ I have to spend on the prize table hire you to build the stages. Might as well pay myself as well. I get $65.00 an hour for my time, how about you? I estimate the build to take 30 man hours, not including gas and water. how much do you need? All this bitching about "value" for a volunteer driven sport is pushing me out of the sport. If I ever run another match, its going to be for profit! You can pay my match fee or shoot elsewhere. Be just like Florida Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I am just trying to understand the numbers. Some how, I can host a successful Level 2 match with an $80 entry fee that includes $4000 in guns to give away, match shirts INCLUDED, meals for the competitors INCLUDED, and still enable the host USPSA club to come away from the match with a small profit for their efforts. This is also done with only 150 entries. Yes this match will require the volunteer efforts of many people to happen successfully. What match doesn't require volunteer help? But as the MD of prior Level 2 matches, when I ran short on volunteer help, I did invest in day laborers to get some of the grunt work done. I gladly paid a few day laborers to pound nails and move props around all day long. There are always circumstances or expenses that "consumers" don't know about in running a major match. Price your match accordingly to make it successful and let the customers rate the success of the match by their willingness to attend or assist with running the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 And yet you are the first to complain if a match is too expensive......50% of my budget goes to RO expense and the range usage. Glad I am not doing this too much longer. crybaby's ruin it for everyone. No one would pay what a match really cost to run. It's the volunteers that make the budget work, and the commitment is just to great for so many. Never enough help. I'm glad you live in a place that allows you an affordable range fee and an over abundance of help. A lot of us don't have that luxury. you want to review my budget, call me 214-536-5025 . as tempted as I am to post it, I think it would create more headaches then you do. And I had nothing to do with Cowtown, other than cook the food. My match is area 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWChambers Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I bet if it was only $80.00 Cowtown could sell out faster than 3 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I am just trying to understand the numbers. Some how, I can host a successful Level 2 match with an $80 entry fee that includes $4000 in guns to give away, match shirts INCLUDED, meals for the competitors INCLUDED, and still enable the host USPSA club to come away from the match with a small profit for their efforts. This is also done with only 150 entries. Yes this match will require the volunteer efforts of many people to happen successfully. What match doesn't require volunteer help? But as the MD of prior Level 2 matches, when I ran short on volunteer help, I did invest in day laborers to get some of the grunt work done. I gladly paid a few day laborers to pound nails and move props around all day long. There are always circumstances or expenses that "consumers" don't know about in running a major match. Price your match accordingly to make it successful and let the customers rate the success of the match by their willingness to attend or assist with running the match. What did you say your range fee per shooter was again? I think I remember this conversation after last years match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 $10 per shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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