Throughput of XL650?

[RickT]

Looks like the Dillon website claims 800 rounds/hour with manual bullet feed. I'm looking for greater throughput than I can achieve in my Hornady LNL AP press, probably around 400+ rounds/hour including refilling the case feeeder and the occasional case that fall of the ramp. I'm interested in the Dillon, but can someone explain how the throughput of two similarly set up presses can differ significantly? My limitation on the Hornady relates to a)keeping all the powder in the 9mm cases and b)reliably pushing cases into the shell plate.

[blueeyephil]

I don't think you will see that much difference. I have both. The 650 hasn't proved itself to be that much better to me. But the case feeder is nice to have. But I still have stoppages that slow me down and I have more problems with primers with the Dillon. You'll probably have others who have better results with the Dillon than me.

[rodell]

I'd be hard pressed to do 800, but I can do 650 without too much trouble on my 650. I can't comment on the Hornady as I don't have any direct experience.

[AusPPC]

I have the LNL-AP, 600 rounds an hour with primer tubes pre-filled is comfortably achieved, though I prefer a few breaks in between.

Re: LNL-AP versus XL650, with both clean, tuned and setup (and fitted with a casefeeder), there should really be no difference in speed.

[RickT]

I have the LNL-AP, 600 rounds an hour with primer tubes pre-filled is comfortably achieved, though I prefer a few breaks in between.

Re: LNL-AP versus XL650, with both clean, tuned and setup (and fitted with a casefeeder), there should really be no difference in speed.

I could sustain 600/hour on my Hornady (with primer tubes filled, etc.) if my case shuttle worked a bit better, but I just haven't been able to take the time to work on it. I've got to watch the cases and give some a "nudge" and if I'm moving too fast the case will snag on its way into the shell plate. Still, I can do 400 pretty easily so I'm not spending a lot of money to go from 400 to 600. I'm doing about 4000 cases/month. I know 10 hours of handle pulling per month doesn't seem like month, but I made the mistake of only semi-retiring; like what I'm doing but the actual shooting is taking up a lot of time (very enjoyable, though).

[jmorris]

I'm interested in the Dillon, but can someone explain how the throughput of two similarly set up presses can differ significantly? My limitation on the Hornady relates to a)keeping all the powder in the 9mm cases and b)reliably pushing cases into the shell plate.

Well, reliability of pushing cases into the shell plate is better on the dillon, keeping powder in the case is a factor of total powder charge, how smooth you operate the press and how ridged it is mounted.

This is a video of one of my (bullet fed) 650's loading at a rate of 1200/hr without rush.

Edited April 1, 2015 by jmorris

[Zoomy]

I filled 10 primer tubes and staged them with 110 primers in each tube. Filled the case feeder with 550 cases and had 550 ready to pour in the hopper. Filled the powder reservoir and had over 1000 projectiles staged. Started the 1 hour timer and started pulling the lever. One hour later I had 1018 rounds completed. Never going to try that again. Have no problem doing 650 per hour. Dillon 650.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Zoomy

[Dr Mitch]

I just moved from a 550 to a 650. I can very easily load in excess of 800 rounds per hour without a bulletfeeder, but that is with lots of pre-filled primer tubes and plenty of brass lubed with Hornady One-Shot. I think if I were seriously focused that I could eek out 1100/hour if there were no stoppages.

[AusPPC]

I have the LNL-AP, 600 rounds an hour with primer tubes pre-filled is comfortably achieved, though I prefer a few breaks in between.

Re: LNL-AP versus XL650, with both clean, tuned and setup (and fitted with a casefeeder), there should really be no difference in speed.

I could sustain 600/hour on my Hornady (with primer tubes filled, etc.) if my case shuttle worked a bit better, but I just haven't been able to take the time to work on it. I've got to watch the cases and give some a "nudge" and if I'm moving too fast the case will snag on its way into the shell plate.

I have two LNL-AP's (one in 38 SPL and another in 9mm) and the case feed into the shellplate is now very smooth and reliable, even with mixed headstamp range pickups.

So if that is your problem, I'd say don't discard the LNL-AP just yet as you may not need to invest in the XL650 if all you want is a bit of extra speed.

To isolate the problem, watch the V-block feed the case in slow motion and look for tipping or binding. Things I did to get mine running sweet included:

- Watch to see if the cases are bumping over the case retainer spring, that will cause the case to bind on the way in

- Get the latest shell plates, they have a wider rim that holds the spring down in its channel to avoid cases bumping over it

- Ensure the shellplate is tight, again this holds the retainer spring down and keeps it flush

- Check the retainer spring is free of kinks

- Experiment with different V-blocks, not just the one suggested in the manual

- Experiment with "shimming" the V-block, or rotating it slightly on its mounting bolt, to get the alignment straight and neutral

- Set the cam wire such that the V-block arrives as late as possible, if it arrives early the case will be jarred (this was a big help)

- Ensure the V-block cam wire is bolted in TIGHT, any kind of play will cause the timing to drift over time (this was a big help)

Hope this assists.

[BeerBaron]

Great tips from ausPPC for the LNL.

I'm a 650 owner but agree that if both are cleaned, prepped and ready to be fed there should be little difference between the LNL AP and the 650 assuming both have case collator.

If you are otherwise happy with the LNL AP then I'd suggest don't waste money selling it and going 650 but spend the $ on the hornady bullet feeder instead.

To get the kind of volume you need to have your stroke style down pat, you need a really firm bench and the machine needs to be clean and lubed. I'd also suggest to get that kind of speed you need your cases lubed at least with some one shot regardless of what calibre or what dies you're using.

Here's a vid of someone doing 15min on a dillon with GSI bullet feeder. 298 rounds in 15min. so it's certainly possibly but I think without the bullet teeder it'd be more like 200 rounds per 15min max.

[phecksel]

why the lube on pistol brass? I've never used any, and didn't know I needed any

On the 1,200 round video, what is the blue thing in front of the bullet feeder?

Which bullet bullet feeder?

[RickT]

I tweaked the timing on my LNL-AP and eliminated the small bump. The primary issue with the case feeder is that the pivot body can rotate ever so slightly on the case feeder stand. This misaligns the drop tube and increases greatly the frequency of case feed failures. The cases seem to trip when I'm overly aggressive on the ram downstroke; the case looses contact with the v-block and can trip. I can do 600/hour if primer tubes, powder dispenser and case feeder all loaded up.

BTW, except for the powder die I've moved completely away from Hornady dies. The Redding Micrometer Seater Die is a huge improvement over the Hornady equivalent. Its quite a learning experience.

[Lifeislarge]

I've always lubed my pistol cases. Even with Dillon carbide dies the difference is remarkable. Just because you don't have to, doesn't mean you shouldn't. It smooths out the machine in such a way that I would get anxious if low on case lube. Now I need a bullet feeder for my 650. Placing bullets just seems so... pedestrian.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Lifeislarge

[razorfish]

why the lube on pistol brass? I've never used any, and didn't know I needed any

On the 1,200 round video, what is the blue thing in front of the bullet feeder?

Which bullet bullet feeder?

There's many threads on the merits of using lube with pistol brass. Obviously a little lube makes pulling the handle easier but the main reason I lube my pistol brass is that press runs much "smoother". A smoother running progressive press yields more consistent ammo.

The "Blue Thing" in front of the bullet feeder in 1200 round/hr video is a Dillon Powder Check. Basically the powder check will let you know if a case has no powder or a double charge. I believe the bullet feeder in the video is a combination of a GSI bullet feeder with a KISS collator. The KISS collator was the original collator for the Mr. Bullet Feeder. JMorris is mechanical genius when it comes to fabricating reloading gadgets especially when it comes to automating a reloading press. Note that the modern Mr. Bullet Feeder replaces the Dillon Powder Check Die so you need to visually verify the powder level in each case. The GSI bullet feeder allows you to retain the Powder Check but the GSI collator is notoriously finicky. JMorris has combined the best aspects of both brands of bullet feeders to achieve "bullet feeder perfection".

[Brassaholic13]

why the lube on pistol brass? I've never used any, and didn't know I needed any

On the 1,200 round video, what is the blue thing in front of the bullet feeder?

Which bullet bullet feeder?

Really, the only thing that needs lubing is the inside of the case mouths. This is so when the expander interfaces with the case, that there's no jerking action as the expander retreats when the ram is lowered.

[BeerBaron]

I find outside helps too. Smoother in and out of the sizing die. The 2 points of vibration on a progressive are certainly size die and powder drop/flare die. I just use the couple sprays of one shot into a bag of cases and it does make the press run smoother and it does reduce oal variance.

[ronn]

For those of you that lube your pistol brass, how do you do it?

[BeerBaron]

Ronn, I went without lube for years. Then after reading threads here I tried it. So much smoother. My method:

Around 200 or so cases in a massive ziplock bag.

3 quick sprays of one shot.

Close up bag quickly and now juggle them around for 30 seconds.

Open a little gap. 3 more quick sprays.

Close it up and 30 sec more tumbling them around.

Ready to go. This works great for me so I haven't tried any other way.

[Boxerglocker]

For those of you that lube your pistol brass, how do you do it?

I have a clean cardboard box that was previously used for packing and transporting cat food cans as a case. I lay one layer pistol brass on it and lightly spray with Hornady One Shot lube, just a light misting is all it takes, shake around to roll the brass once or twice and dump in the hopper.

[jmorris]

For those of you that lube your pistol brass, how do you do it?

A cardboard "banker box" lid with a single layer of brass and a few squirts of Dillon lube, then shake and dump in the collator.

[pointblanktx]

I'm interested in the Dillon, but can someone explain how the throughput of two similarly set up presses can differ significantly? My limitation on the Hornady relates to a)keeping all the powder in the 9mm cases and b)reliably pushing cases into the shell plate.

Well, reliability of pushing cases into the shell plate is better on the dillon, keeping powder in the case is a factor of total powder charge, how smooth you operate the press and how ridged it is mounted.

This is a video of one of my (bullet fed) 650's loading at a rate of 1200/hr without rush.

Hey what kind of bench is that? Sure seems pretty rigid.

Edited April 9, 2015 by pointblanktx

[jmorris]

Homemade, 3/4" box tube as a 5" tall truss with cross supports and 1/8" steel top, 550 and 650 mounted on 3/8" plates (that hang over 1" for 550/650's) with bolt patterns drilled and tapped for all of them and counter sink bolts holding the plates to the bench so everything swaps out if needed.

Example of the base plate with multiple bolt patterns drilled and tapped into them. 4 bolts in and out to swap presses (3 for the SD's), not as cheap but faster than converting calibers on a single machine.

Edited April 9, 2015 by jmorris

[RandyLahey]

AusPPC

thx for that reply.

I've got a new LnL AP and have had a TON of problems with indexing and priming with it; due to the index issues. Otherwise, I would like the press :/. With the inline fab handle it's ridiculous how easy it is to operate compared to my Lee loadmaster which tbh I prefer over the LnL again due to the issues listed. I've adjusted the pawls, the detents etc... Called Hornady on a couple occasions which they were great and patient btw, so it looks like I'll need to send my press back, as they were worried about a tolerance issue in the carrier, but probably are just being nice and thinking I'm screwing things up; which could very well be true. Then again, in my defense, if I can tune a Loadmaster to run 99% reliable, I should be able to get any other press to work with the same or less effort

I'm here smurfing the blue forum as I was considering just chucking the AP for sale after I get it back, and getting a 650 or maybe even a 1050. I think I'll send the LnL back, and hopefully it gets sorted out. I don't want to buy a case feeder for it in it's present state as I'm not sure I'm going to keep it. I guess what I'm really trying to say is I wish the 650 and LnL could have a baby and sort the small issues each has out. I feel the Dillion is overall superior, but there were features the LnL had that I wanted more at the time and between the slight savings in price and the bullet rebate they got me. Maybe I'll end up liking the LnL, dedicate that to 40SW, use my Loadmaster for 9mm, and then maybe I SHOULD buy a 1050T for rifle which I HATE TO RELOAD due to all the extra work; I mean I need to bee fair to Dillon ; that's logical reasoning right lol. I think I need to stay off the forums lol, I get press envy too easily.

Edited April 24, 2015 by RandyLahey

[RandyLahey]

JMorris,

WOW, I'm so jealous of your presses AND your benches. Nice work. I bow down sir

Edited April 24, 2015 by RandyLahey

[jmorris]

JMorris,

WOW, I'm so jealous of your presses AND your benches. Nice work. I bow down sir

Thank you but that is after 30 years of loading, not having enough room and not putting much effort towards "doing it right".

This was my last bench.

A cordless drill and drywall screws swapped them around.