Plastic Open guns

[BeerBaron]

If price is the main motivator for plastic over a 2011 then consider a tanfoglio gold team or a cz czechmate. Both grea major pf open guns in 38 super (tanfog) or 9mm (cz). They have their quirks but can run with the 2011s. I've seen used gold teams on this forum for 1500. They certainly work ok for Eric Graiffel!!

[Parallax3D]

If price is the main motivator for plastic over a 2011 then consider a tanfoglio gold team or a cz czechmate. Both grea major pf open guns in 38 super (tanfog) or 9mm (cz). They have their quirks but can run with the 2011s. I've seen used gold teams on this forum for 1500. They certainly work ok for Eric Graiffel!!

1. The Czechmate is NOT a cheaper alternative to a 2011! It costs $3,300.00, about the price of a good semi-custom 2011.

2. The DW Havoc, (also made by CZ), which is based on a Caspian frame, is about $4,300.00. For that, you can get a full custom SV.

3. Works for Graiffel? Like I said, it's the Indian, not the arrow. I'd be willing to bet that Eric could shoot Open with a Single Stack .45, and still beat the majority of us. Same goes for the majority of the top GM's.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Parallax3D

[Racinready300ex]

You can save a lot with a plastic gun. Based on prices I see in the classified you'd spend $1700-$1800 on a really cheap open gun. Then you still need mags, holster, pouches, belt, dies, brass, bullets, powder. etc.

I probably spent close to 1700 on my glock. But that included 3 170's, and 3 140's. and everything else I needed to start shooting and reloading. And there were a few area's I could of saved more but decided to spend a little extra on parts I liked better.

[Reshoot]

I spent $1,250.00 to turn an XDm (40 caliber) into an open gun. I did so, not because I wanted to shoot open, but because my eye doctor was running out of options. He kept me going, in Limited division, for a few years, Then, at 62, it was either use an optic / red dot or quit shooting. Did I mention that I am nearly blind in my left eye? An optic nerve infection in that eye, back in 1980, had me totally blind (left eye) for several years. Since it was nerve damage, no correction was possible. The end result, I have but one eye that I can see with, and it sucks!

I chose 40 caliber because the XDm does not have a supported chamber, for safely running 9mm major. I took the same XDm limited gun, that Scott Springer had built for me, and added sight, mount, barrel and comp. At 62, even an SV+ was not going to make me a GM, so why spend thousands?

The point I will FINALLY make . . . is that there are many different reasons people may choose to build an open gun on the cheap.

That's my story, and I'm stick'n to it

[Racinready300ex]

I'm in the same boat Reshoot, only I'm a good bit younger than you. I've been blind in one eye due to the nerves not developing correctly before I was born.

The plus side is I never get double vision with both eyes open. lol

Edited March 6, 2015 by Racinready300ex

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

You will never make a striker fired gun run like a gun with a hammer

Does striker vs. hammer matter? Isn't (heavy) metal vs. (light) plastic the real difference?

[Reshoot]

Well, there is the trigger. For example, my XDm trigger is a really sweet trigger, for a striker fired gun. It has a tiny bit of take up and over travel, with a 2 1/2 pound pull. I have shot a $4K open gun with a 1 1/2 pound pull and zero take up. You just can't make that happen in a striker fired gun, and make it safe and reliable.

[BreenMachine945]

Do you think if you run 9 major enough through an XDm with a barstow barrel and comp, it will ruin the internals of the gun. Like springs and other stuff

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Well, there is the trigger. For example, my XDm trigger is a really sweet trigger, for a striker fired gun. It has a tiny bit of take up and over travel, with a 2 1/2 pound pull. I have shot a $4K open gun with a 1 1/2 pound pull and zero take up. You just can't make that happen in a striker fired gun, and make it safe and reliable.

Is it really that hard to make a light trigger for a striker-fired gun? Why? Or are the popular plastic guns -- Glock, M&P, and XD(m) -- just not awesome in that department. It's not like the 2011 is a typical metal gun, after all. Edited March 9, 2015 by Not-So-Mad Matt

[Bkreutz]

Well, there is the trigger. For example, my XDm trigger is a really sweet trigger, for a striker fired gun. It has a tiny bit of take up and over travel, with a 2 1/2 pound pull. I have shot a $4K open gun with a 1 1/2 pound pull and zero take up. You just can't make that happen in a striker fired gun, and make it safe and reliable.

Is it really that hard to make a light trigger for a striker-fired gun? Why? Or are the popular plastic guns -- Glock, M&P, and XD(m) -- just not awesome in that department. It's not like the 2011 is a typical metal gun, after all.

It's not hard to make a striker fired gun have a light trigger (at least not a M&P which is where my experience is). I have mine set to 2# but I can get it lighter with spring changes. Don't know what the problem with the other pistols would be, it wouldn't be any more dangerous, the striker block still has to be pushed up by the trigger bar no matter how light the trigger is. To get the trigger light, one also has to work on the striker block smoothness.

[Reshoot]

Well, there is the trigger. For example, my XDm trigger is a really sweet trigger, for a striker fired gun. It has a tiny bit of take up and over travel, with a 2 1/2 pound pull. I have shot a $4K open gun with a 1 1/2 pound pull and zero take up. You just can't make that happen in a striker fired gun, and make it safe and reliable.

Is it really that hard to make a light trigger for a striker-fired gun? Why? Or are the popular plastic guns -- Glock, M&P, and XD(m) -- just not awesome in that department. It's not like the 2011 is a typical metal gun, after all.

I suggest you ask an expert. Scott Springer, Springer Precision, is a member and forum dealer right here. He is my go-to Springfield gun smith.

A few years ago, when he built my Limited gun, he made it clear that he would not go below 2 1/2 pounds on my XDm.

[DWNZRO]

At the price that STI and CK Arms have released their new open guns, it seems the margin between plastic and semi-custom 2011's is getting smaller and smaller.

[BrianS]

I just received this from ZEV last week. It's my new steel challenge gun in 9mm - modified G17 Gen3. First impression is it's very light in my hand. Only100 rounds through it so far. Couple of failure to feeds, but pretty smooth other than that. Best Glock trigger I've squeezed! Heading to the range tomorrow after work to finish break in.

[Parallax3D]

I just received this from ZEV last week. It's my new steel challenge gun in 9mm - modified G17 Gen3. First impression is it's very light in my hand. Only100 rounds through it so far. Couple of failure to feeds, but pretty smooth other than that. Best Glock trigger I've squeezed! Heading to the range tomorrow after work to finish break in.

My .40 open gun had a ZEV trigger, and it was about 2# with zero take-up. Is it a 1911 trigger? No, but it's about as close as you can get in a Glock.

The big thing with those lightened Glock triggers is to make sure that you set your primers all the way in! (DEEP!!) Otherwise, with a lightened striker and spring, you tend to get light strikes and rounds won't go off.

[Rob D]

As with most things, it's the Indian, not the arrow.

Yeah, but there's a good reason all the best Indians use the same kind of arrow. KC is the exception, but I assume he's being well compensated for using a plastic arrow.

[Reshoot]

I just received this from ZEV last week. It's my new steel challenge gun in 9mm - modified G17 Gen3. First impression is it's very light in my hand. Only100 rounds through it so far. Couple of failure to feeds, but pretty smooth other than that. Best Glock trigger I've squeezed! Heading to the range tomorrow after work to finish break in.

My .40 open gun had a ZEV trigger, and it was about 2# with zero take-up. Is it a 1911 trigger? No, but it's about as close as you can get in a Glock.

The big thing with those lightened Glock triggers is to make sure that you set your primers all the way in! (DEEP!!) Otherwise, with a lightened striker and spring, you tend to get light strikes and rounds won't go off.

It is not just the Glock. I suspect the same can be said for all striker fired guns. It is certainly the case with my XDm. The trigger job was done by an expert . . . 2 1/2#. As time went by, I could no resist the temptation to make the trigger lighter.

When I installed a lightened striker spring, I started getting light strikes. When I installed a lightened recoil spring the slide would not go all the way into battery, due to the resistance from the striker spring.

Totally different mechanics between a striker fired gun and a hammer fired gun. You can put an 8# recoil spring in a 2011 . . . there is no striker spring working in the opposite direction, that would keep the slide from going into battery.

Anyhow, in the end, I finally realized "you will never make a striker fired gun run like a hammer gun".

[MikeRush]

As with most things, it's the Indian, not the arrow.

Yeah, but there's a good reason all the best Indians use the same kind of arrow. KC is the exception, but I assume he's being well compensated for using a plastic arrow.

Would it surprise you to learn that KC moved on from the plastic arrow just prior to last years world shoot, and flat out dominated Open at A2 last weekend?

Glock press release stated KC had a frustrating record with Glock... wonder why?

The whole "but KC uses one" arguement is dead, and KC is back to doing what KC does.

[pc13]

My open gun is a SW MP 9mm CORE with Leupold Delta Point.. with Apex flat faced trigger. I also added the 3 port carver comp. still working out comp issues..

[2muchvdos]

Just get an SV

Sure! You got about $4K you can loan me?

Think there more?!?

[gng4life]

My open gun is a SW MP 9mm CORE with Leupold Delta Point.. with Apex flat faced trigger. I also added the 3 port carver comp. still working out comp issues..

What barrel and spring are you using? Was the barrel a drop in or gunsmith fit?

[bmiller]

This one I made this weekend for my M&P. It stalls out on my minor hand loads, but seems to run ok on some hotter factory ammo. I am going to put one more port on top. I am running a stock spring that has quite a few rounds on it.

[trgt]

I'm building an Open M&P right now for the family to shoot. They don't like the weight of the 2011s I have so I'm getting it all ready now. ...

That may not be pleasant to shoot. I have a Czechmate, with it's all steel frame and comp is much heaver than 2011. Steers slow, but much smoother to shoot than 2011 -- the 2011's I have are violent in comparison with their plastic grips. If you are going even lighter you may be solving one problem (weight of gun) at expense of another (how violent the shot feels in hand).

For what it's worth, I am converting a XDm 4.5 40 to open. Had the gun and it wasn't being used (bought a Xdm 5.25 9mm for 3gun for all the advantages of 9mm)

I just need to decide if I am going to go with a new barrel for a comp or have it magnaported.

Trijicon Rm07 on a springer precision plate with SP slide racker.

...

I have a quad magna port done on a CZ shadow slide, with a red dot its my FUN open minor gun. But that is a PORT, not a compensator, depending on your load, you'll get a slight amount of flip reduction with Minor PF ammo, maybe enough to keep it flatter. But its not a compensator and isn't going to help tame the recoil of major PF ammo like a real compensator does (AFAIK).

[gng4life]

Thanks TRGT. They plan on shooting Minor so it won't be violent. I plan on trying to make my SC loads work but up the speed (95gr JHP) so I can hopefully get some use out of the comp. They really want to shoot a dot so that's the main factor and I'm just happy to get them involved.

I tested my initial setup this past weekend (M&P Core 9, Delta Point, Carver AL comp, KKM barrel) but I was getting some stovepipes. Will do some work on bullets and testing the comp on/off and checking barrel over the next few weeks to get it right. Appreciate any pointers with this...

[ropsitos]

My biggest concern about going with the comp, is expectations. I agree that the comp should be better than the porting, perhaps even a lot better. But after I spend all that money and time (at least $100 more in parts, probably another $125-150 in fitting, if I choose that type of barrel), I have expectations about the recoil reduction, and if they didn't meet it, I think I would be upset having gone that route, especially shooting .40 S&W. I'm also concerned that to achieve reliability with a comp that I will have to mess with it a lot initially to get it working. I don't know if I want that kind of project.

The with the porting my expectations are lower, and I might stand a lesser chance of being disappointed.

I think I need to do some more reading about compensated 40 S&W.

thanks

Bob

[trgt]

Thanks TRGT. They plan on shooting Minor so it won't be violent. I plan on trying to make my SC loads work but up the speed (95gr JHP) so I can hopefully get some use out of the comp. They really want to shoot a dot so that's the main factor and I'm just happy to get them involved.

I tested my initial setup this past weekend (M&P Core 9, Delta Point, Carver AL comp, KKM barrel) but I was getting some stovepipes. Will do some work on bullets and testing the comp on/off and checking barrel over the next few weeks to get it right. Appreciate any pointers with this...

Oh, yes, if Minor then no big deal. When I shoot my Czechmate minor for practice, steel challenge or fun, I'm pretty sure the comp is doing nothing other than providing more weight in the front end (which is still nice). I do think the porting on my shadow slide is helping slightly with reducing flip, but haven't measured or tried to optimize yet with more gassy Minor PF loads.. With the stovepipes, I'm not an expert, but between the delta point and comp, you may have slowed everything down enough on the top end that you might need a lighter recoil spring.

Edited March 16, 2015 by trgt