Right handed shooter grouping left

[bigred1]

I've recently switched from stricker fire and single action to Sig DA/SA. I have about 600 rnds through my 220 and I'll be damned if I cant group on center during SA. I keep pulling 2" left at 15yrds.

My intial thought that the G10 grips were to small for my hand (break point felt like my index was touching my palm). So I went to Hogue finger grooves. This straightend out my DA. And one would think that SA would be a no brainer. Still pulling left. Next I went to poi tells, due left usually means to much finger. So I've tried moving my trigger finger with no success.

I dont have this problem with my 1911s, Revolvers or stricker fired (XD, shield, VP9), I've also never had issues with any of my issued M9s.

My last thoughts are that my crazy bad astigmatism and siglites just dont jive. At 25yrds the giant front sight pretty much looks like 8 moa red dot to me.

Before I give up and put new sights on a new gun, can someone give me some training ideas.

Thanks for reading the frustrations of someone who thought they were competent.

[Sarge]

What do groups look like from a rest slow fire?

[bigred1]

I haven't tried shooting from rest, I feel very unnatural shooting pistols supported.

From both a weaver and an isosceles, I'm grouping at +/- 2.5"s but 6"s on center to the left.

I dont think its a sight alignment issue because when I'm practicing my DA pull I'm hitting my mark poa=poi for a combat sight picture.

Also I've brought the target in to 10 yrds so that my eyes are not straining. My target reflects the same SA issue with a scaled in left push SA and a dead on DA.

Edited February 17, 2015 by bigred1

[b1gcountry]

I have no clue what is causing this, but it is also possible the sights are off, and you are hitting dead on with the sa shots but shooting right in da.

[JAFO]

Do you have a short reach trigger in your 220? I'm not referring to the SRT, or short reset trigger, but short reach as in thinner front to back? I tried one of those in a 229 for a little while and had the same problem going left in SA. I switched to a standard width trigger and the problem went away.

[bigred1]

It's a 220 scorpian, so elite beaver tail frame, Short Reset Trigger, cerakoted tan. I dont think is has a short reach. I'll do some google-foo to see if I can see a difference.

Edit: nope big fat normal trigger.

Edited February 17, 2015 by bigred1

[JAFO]

Try either shooting it from a rest or having another shooter try it (preferably one you know shoots well). It could be your technique with the SA trigger, but it could also be what b1gcountry has suggested.

[bigred1]

I still think it's a techique issue but I think you guys are right. It is easier to rule out mechanical than dissect a shooting technique.

I'll do some google'n but absent sand bags any thoughts on a quick pistol rest.

[mgardner]

Put more pressure on the frame with your weak hand thumb and see if it helps.

[Southpaw]

Try a ball and dummy drill. That'll show you if it's you or the gun and what exactly you're doing differently in SA vs. DA as the hammer falls.

[Steve RA]

If the groups are a decent size, just move rear sight to the right slightly.

[b1gcountry]

His sa shots are going in a different place from his da shots

Edited February 18, 2015 by b1gcountry

[bigred1]

b1g is right steve, only my SA shots are missing their mark.

Ball dummy is an excellent idea I'll add that to fridays tests.

[BeerBaron]

I have seen this happen to another shooter a while ago when he switched from a glock to a CZ. He was pulling shots left (not sure how his DA shots were but his SA shots were left). It was simply not being used to the shorter lighter trigger and he was pulling it hard into the stop thus pulling to the left. The DA trigger pull was longer and heavier more like what he was used to with a glock. The SA pull was so much lighter and shorter he was basically jerking the trigger and pulling it left.

I think a little structured dry fire time will most probably help. After all you may only fire 8 DA shots over the course of a match vs 200+ in SA so it's important to get that right.

[frankie]

What is the ball and dummy training

[JAFO]

What is the ball and dummy training

Loading dummy rounds in with the live ones at random intervals. It works best when you have someone else load the mags, or you load several randomly and then go through them in no particular order. The idea is that when the gun goes "click" instead of "bang" you will see what the front sight does. When people are anticipating recoil, for example, you will see the muzzle dip sharply. So if the OP sees the front sight move left, he knows it's him and not the gun.

[suzuki94]

I had the same issue as well as my nephew that just graduated from the nypd academy. His instructor told him he was gripping the pistol too tight with the right hand and there you go......problem solved instantly! Worked for me also! Please let me know how it worked out for you.

[frankie]

What is the ball and dummy training

Loading dummy rounds in with the live ones at random intervals. It works best when you have someone else load the mags, or you load several randomly and then go through them in no particular order. The idea is that when the gun goes "click" instead of "bang" you will see what the front sight does. When people are anticipating recoil, for example, you will see the muzzle dip sharply. So if the OP sees the front sight move left, he knows it's him and not the gun.

[frankie]

Thanks for the reply, i'll give that a try

[boatdoc173]

for what it is worth BR1--

I have found it to be finge rpa dplacement(mor eis better) and trigger pull that causes the left puch-- try center finger pad use--a slow pull back of the trigger-- hope that helps--JMHO

[boatdoc173]

for what it is worth BR1--

I have found it to be finge rpa dplacement(mor eis better) and trigger pull that causes the left puch-- try center finger pad use--a slow pull back of the trigger-- hope that helps--JMHO

sorry for the dyslexic typing--hands went numb there--meant I founfd that finger pad placement (more is better--try using the center of that finger pad) and a deliberate slow and even trigger pull to fix this issue for me

[gigsaw]

Sound like u have to much finger on the trigger. I use the tip and improved dramatically

[Robco]

Do you have a short reach trigger in your 220? I'm not referring to the SRT, or short reset trigger, but short reach as in thinner front to back? I tried one of those in a 229 for a little while and had the same problem going left in SA. I switched to a standard width trigger and the problem went away.

Exactly my first thought. Shorter trigger. Therefore the trigger finger is effectively going in to the trigger guard a little too far. Just a guess with the evidence provided.

[pjb45]

Stance, grip, trigger control. Usually in that order.

You said you are pulling your shots left. Does that mean you are left handed and you are pulling your trigger finger towards the outside.

If you are right handed and shooting left, stance and grip correct, then you are pushing you trigger.

Isolating the cause is the first step. My triggers are very light so I can just use the outter tip of my finger to break the shot.

BE spent some time with me about trigger control. The bottom line is your are moving your sight alignment (no shocker, just reiterating the obvious).

I read that some put a penny on the front sight and dry fire without displacing the penny. I found this to be boring.

I believe BE suggested doing slow fire groups on a rest. This helped me a lot to learn to pull the trigger straight back without distrubing the sight alignment.

I do notice i have a much harder time shooting good groups with a heavier trigger.

[Robco]

Trigger prep and trigger control are related but separate actions. When you begin to prep the trigger, regardless of when or how you are accomplishing that, it is possible if not likely, that you are at the same time resuming/re-establishing your strong hand grip. This of course would involve movement in the other three fingers besides the trigger finger. It happens on EVERY shot to one extent or another, and is unavoidable. The key is to not have these fingers move at all right before the shot breaks. We need to realize this, and learn to accomplish a trigger pull which is part prep, part pressuring up and travel take-up and then finally a break. I have trained many folks who were shooting consistent, tight pairs on 10 yard targets, impacting 8 inches low and 3 or 4 inches left. Right handers. I then shot their pistol and it was sighted in dead on for me. I worked with them a few minutes on this trigger pull and control concept and in minutes, they magically eliminated the low-left deflection that was concurring. It is sometimes tricky to diagnose, because, contrary to what one would think, jerking a trigger can be extremely consistently executed, resulting in a tight group.