Stangs55 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I love my Chargemaster combo, but over the past several months I've been tossing around the idea of going to a high precision scale with an Omega Trickler. My budget is always dynamic, but I'd like to stay south of $600ish. The further south, the better (just like in real life ) I like to think that my Google-Fu is strong, and I've come across several options...........all of which are discontinued. All of them. For example... The Denver Instrument MXX-123 is a strong option that sold for $275 before being discontinued. They now go for $429 on ebay... Actually....Denver Instruments had several options...until they were bought by Sartorious and they went away. Okay, how about the Sartorius AY123 for $333? Discontinued. I even considered the Sartorius GD503, which could be found around $800....discontinued. So what's left? Well if you contact Sartorious....everything above has now been replaced by one model, the Sartorious ENTRIS64-1S. A $1575 retail MSRP scale that can be found for the low price of $1014 online. Really? Is that it? And for those of you who are going to recommend the GemPro 250...I'm not a fan. Yes, the box says it is accurate to 0.02...but from everything I've seen on it, that doesn't appear to be true. The GemPro also appears to be the same scale offered by Brian Enos...just with different paint. As an example of why I don't think this scale is worth it can be seen in this video at 5:18. Here's what happens for those that don't like to click. He trickles up to 23.22. He then lifts the pan and sets it back down...now it reads 23.26 He lifts the pan again and sets it back down...now it reads 23.28 He then uses tweezers to add a single kernel...still 23.28...lifts the scale and sets it back down...still reads 23.28 He adds a kernel...still reads 23.28....lifts and sets it back down....now it reads 23.30. This kind of back and forth is absolutely not what I want. If you consider this 0.02 accuracy, then I consider my Chargemaster 0.02 accurate...I'm just proud of RCBS for not putting an extra decimal place for marketing reasons. So what am I left with? What should I buy if I'm looking for single kernel accuracy without spending over $1000? The options used to be there...just not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Scales that are accurate to .10 all round to the nearest number. Those GemPro throws would have all shown 23.3 grs on the RCBS. Why would you want that level of kernal accuracy? Save your extra cash for more powder and bullets. IMO the accuracy number you are looking for should be the SD on a chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I am a fan of the beam scales but I understand the digital advantages Have you looked at the My Weigh iBallance311 ? they list a resolution of 0.01 grains and at < $400, its in your price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-GEM20-Precision-Milligram/dp/B00ESHDGOI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1421464993&sr=8-3&keywords=precision+scale Read the reviews. I have one. Works great, and the weighs repeat. It's sensitive enough that you will want a breeze shield and a vibration isolator. I use a 1" piece of memory foam under it. I had a GemPro 250 for a few days. It was garbage and went back. http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM/ref=pd_sbs_k_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1SWQ35X2K18AH6G23FCA There's the same scale. Read the top helpful review. That's what sold me on trying it. Edited January 17, 2015 by Brassaholic13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummm Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Is something like this reasonable: http://balance.balances.com/scales/915 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manac Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I am using a Ohaus SPJ 303. Resolution is 0.02 gr. $300. I like it a lot. It can be switched between lots of units if needed. 60g capacity. You also can get a usb interface for it (<$100) and write code to get the data into a spreadsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reloader901 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Last week I bought a cheapy Frankford Arsenal DS-750. Talk about being depressed. Apparently digital scales have to be temperature stabilized for 30-60 minutes. Sheeesh! I thought using a beam scale was a pain in the ass. I took the digital scale from the house to garage expecting it to work..... as Steve Martin would say: "...but noooooo!" Unless someone knows of a digital scale that works immediately without having to wait more than a minute regardless of a temperature change I will stick with a beam scale that I have HATED for 25 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Last week I bought a cheapy Frankford Arsenal DS-750. Talk about being depressed. Apparently digital scales have to be temperature stabilized for 30-60 minutes. Sheeesh! I thought using a beam scale was a pain in the ass. I took the digital scale from the house to garage expecting it to work..... as Steve Martin would say: "...but noooooo!" Unless someone knows of a digital scale that works immediately without having to wait more than a minute regardless of a temperature change I will stick with a beam scale that I have HATED for 25 years. I had a Hornaday electronic scale that would go "wonky" when the batteries got low. I got tired of trying to figure out when the batteries were weak so I got the scale that Brian sells in his store. http://www.brianenos.com/store/be.scale_pd.html it comes with an AC adapter (it will work on batteries too) but I haven't used it with batteries. The test I do to check if the scale is working correctly is to put a weight (usually a shell case) on the scale, zero it, take it off and look at the number. Then I put it back on the scale and take it off a number of times. When the Hornaday went weird, I never got the same numbers twice. With the new scale, the same weight comes up (a negative number because I set the scale to zero with the case on it) the same every time when I take it off and returns to zero when I put the same case back on. The warmup when turning it on is less than one minute. Another thing I like is the lifetime warranty (actually 20 years). On an electronic device this is unheard of. So far I'm pleased with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 So does anyone actually think charges in the 0.0X of a grain make a damn difference to anything except mollifying our OCD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't, because then you have to check each case for exact capacity and then bullets to zero deviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have been looking around a new scale and I came across this one: http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1251 If anyone has any experience with this, it may be what the OP and I are looking for. I like the warranty (30 years), the accuracy seems there and it states they do a burn in and calibration before they leave the factory. I have had a few crappy electronic scales and eventually threw them away. I want one not just for "dead on balls accuracy" but like the OP said, doesn't need forever to setup and ready to weigh. Also have consistency with each weight taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reloader901 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Last week I bought a cheapy Frankford Arsenal DS-750. Talk about being depressed. Apparently digital scales have to be temperature stabilized for 30-60 minutes. Sheeesh! I thought using a beam scale was a pain in the ass. I took the digital scale from the house to garage expecting it to work..... as Steve Martin would say: "...but noooooo!" Unless someone knows of a digital scale that works immediately without having to wait more than a minute regardless of a temperature change I will stick with a beam scale that I have HATED for 25 years. I had a Hornaday electronic scale that would go "wonky" when the batteries got low. I got tired of trying to figure out when the batteries were weak so I got the scale that Brian sells in his store. http://www.brianenos.com/store/be.scale_pd.html it comes with an AC adapter (it will work on batteries too) but I haven't used it with batteries. The test I do to check if the scale is working correctly is to put a weight (usually a shell case) on the scale, zero it, take it off and look at the number. Then I put it back on the scale and take it off a number of times. When the Hornaday went weird, I never got the same numbers twice. With the new scale, the same weight comes up (a negative number because I set the scale to zero with the case on it) the same every time when I take it off and returns to zero when I put the same case back on. The warmup when turning it on is less than one minute. Another thing I like is the lifetime warranty (actually 20 years). On an electronic device this is unheard of. So far I'm pleased with it. Can that scale be taken from an 80 degree environment to a 20 degree garage, be turned on and ready to go in 1 minute? That is my current situation. If not, then I need to stick with a beam scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reloader901 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 When using a beam scale waiting for the beam to settle is a pain, but the stupid powder pan swinging (and trying to stop it) is what really drives me mad. I have seen many old beam scales measuring food etc that have a platform onto which the thing to be weighed is placed. I have yet to see a beam scale that measures in small amounts such as those we need for pistol powder etc that has a platform onto which the powder pan can be placed rather than hung and swinging. Have y'all seen any beam scales like I am talking about (platform rather than hanging)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stangs55 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I have been looking around a new scale and I came across this one: http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1251 If anyone has any experience with this, it may be what the OP and I are looking for. I like the warranty (30 years), the accuracy seems there and it states they do a burn in and calibration before they leave the factory. I have had a few crappy electronic scales and eventually threw them away. I want one not just for "dead on balls accuracy" but like the OP said, doesn't need forever to setup and ready to weigh. Also have consistency with each weight taken. I think this is just a rebranded GemPro Edited March 30, 2015 by Stangs55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have been looking around a new scale and I came across this one: http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1251 If anyone has any experience with this, it may be what the OP and I are looking for. I like the warranty (30 years), the accuracy seems there and it states they do a burn in and calibration before they leave the factory. I have had a few crappy electronic scales and eventually threw them away. I want one not just for "dead on balls accuracy" but like the OP said, doesn't need forever to setup and ready to weigh. Also have consistency with each weight taken. I think this is just a rebranded GemPro Which is what Brian sells in his store, it sure looks like mine, right down to the case and powder pan. The only difference is that Brian's is $60.00 cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Last week I bought a cheapy Frankford Arsenal DS-750. Talk about being depressed. Apparently digital scales have to be temperature stabilized for 30-60 minutes. Sheeesh! I thought using a beam scale was a pain in the ass. I took the digital scale from the house to garage expecting it to work..... as Steve Martin would say: "...but noooooo!" Unless someone knows of a digital scale that works immediately without having to wait more than a minute regardless of a temperature change I will stick with a beam scale that I have HATED for 25 years. I had a Hornaday electronic scale that would go "wonky" when the batteries got low. I got tired of trying to figure out when the batteries were weak so I got the scale that Brian sells in his store. http://www.brianenos.com/store/be.scale_pd.html it comes with an AC adapter (it will work on batteries too) but I haven't used it with batteries. The test I do to check if the scale is working correctly is to put a weight (usually a shell case) on the scale, zero it, take it off and look at the number. Then I put it back on the scale and take it off a number of times. When the Hornaday went weird, I never got the same numbers twice. With the new scale, the same weight comes up (a negative number because I set the scale to zero with the case on it) the same every time when I take it off and returns to zero when I put the same case back on. The warmup when turning it on is less than one minute. Another thing I like is the lifetime warranty (actually 20 years). On an electronic device this is unheard of. So far I'm pleased with it. Can that scale be taken from an 80 degree environment to a 20 degree garage, be turned on and ready to go in 1 minute? That is my current situation. If not, then I need to stick with a beam scale. I wouldn't have a clue. I might see either of those temperatures three or 4 times a year (for a very short time) And my shop is heated. Do you really keep your house 80 degrees when it's 20 outside? That's gotta cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 There are other small differences. It's definitely not the exact same model but very close. Being that similar, I would go with Brian's scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reloader901 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I wouldn't have a clue. I might see either of those temperatures three or 4 times a year (for a very short time) And my shop is heated. Do you really keep your house 80 degrees when it's 20 outside? That's gotta cost. Small Connecticut house with wood stove = inexpensive and toasty. Wife won't move away from her family in Massachusetts to freedom in the west or south, so I'm stuck here. Dillon 650 is in garage/barn. Heating the garage/barn would be very expensive. Guess I'm stuck with a beam scale. I'm so sad...... BTW: Anyone using a digital scale that stays in a cold environment (20-40 F)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 So does anyone actually think charges in the 0.0X of a grain make a damn difference to anything except mollifying our OCD? Im glad you said that. Its exactly what I was thinking. Big waist of time and money. IMHO, But with over 40 years of reloading experience what do I know............? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandog56 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I used to calibrate scales as part of my job. The problem is, the higher the precision (eg more decimal points) the more external factors affect the readings. When air pressure changes, temperature changes, even humidity can affect readings. Is an air conditioner or heater in the house running, setting up smal drafts that cause unstable readings. That is why on supper precise scales the pan is usually enclosed with a clear plastic box of some kind. Even static electricity has a huge affect. At some point it is just going to be more trouble to try to get more accurate readings than it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtdarte Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Yup... BIG waste of time ... money... for nothing. Maybe the next tool of improvement we should be discussing should be what tweezers and razor works best for trimming powder grains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 When using a beam scale waiting for the beam to settle is a pain, but the stupid powder pan swinging (and trying to stop it) is what really drives me mad. Air currents are a bigger factor for me. My old 10-10 scale and a photo switch can detect the difference in a single kernel of extruded powder. That's about all I think I will ever need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I used to calibrate scales as part of my job. The problem is, the higher the precision (eg more decimal points) the more external factors affect the readings. When air pressure changes, temperature changes, even humidity can affect readings. Is an air conditioner or heater in the house running, setting up smal drafts that cause unstable readings. That is why on supper precise scales the pan is usually enclosed with a clear plastic box of some kind. Even static electricity has a huge affect. At some point it is just going to be more trouble to try to get more accurate readings than it is worth. Good info here, thanks for sharing. Don't you want more accuracy so the variation isn't as wide? If you keep it in the same room, almost same temperature, control any air currents, shouldn't you get more accurate and consistent readings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I used to calibrate scales as part of my job. The problem is, the higher the precision (eg more decimal points) the more external factors affect the readings. When air pressure changes, temperature changes, even humidity can affect readings. Is an air conditioner or heater in the house running, setting up smal drafts that cause unstable readings. That is why on supper precise scales the pan is usually enclosed with a clear plastic box of some kind. Even static electricity has a huge affect. At some point it is just going to be more trouble to try to get more accurate readings than it is worth. Good info here, thanks for sharing. Don't you want more accuracy so the variation isn't as wide? If you keep it in the same room, almost same temperature, control any air currents, shouldn't you get more accurate and consistent readings? Are you reloading and measuring each and every charge by hand or are you just verifying charge weights from a powder drop mechanism on a machine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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