Caspian that will not cycle 38 super ....

[SWLover]

I bought a 1994 Caspian.

It is without a doubt the most accurate and easy 1911 that I have shot.

It is equiped with a muzzle brake and red-dot sight.

It would fail to cycle each time I took it to the range.

So, I worked with it for several weeks and finally took it to a gunsmith that is noted for his abilities to repair 1911's.

First thing out of hiis mouth is that the ejection port is too small and needed to be opened.

He kept it for several weeks and finally got to shoot it.

He confirmed what I had told him, it just would not eject the empty.

He said the slide was not traveling far enough to the back.

He changed springs numerous times but got no where with the spring issue.

He finally decided to try 38 super + P and then he finally got it to cycle.

He said it was the first 1911 he had worked on with such a awesome muzzle brake.

He thoroughly went thru the 1911 and had it working very slick.

He ran 38 super + P and he suggested I run + P. and it appeared the brake was causing the problem.

Now I'm going to try to load some + P with Hogdon Titegroup using 124 grain Jacketed bullets.

Anyone with any suggestion, I'm all open to try anything.

[mike4045]

Probably better luck with slower powder to work the comp better. Some open guns will not run well with lighter loads. My carry gun is basically a short open gun without the dot. I run the hottest 9mm I can buy. It makes about 160 pf. It does not like low power factory ammo.

[calvinc78]

Go to the 38/9 reloading section and there's tons of load data there. with a comp the slower the powder the more the comp will work.

[GrumpyOne]

What you have to understand is the comp bleeds off the force used to make the slide move backwards. So, you need more power and alighter recoil spring. My STI Trubor is a single shot with factory ammo...even +p ammo. If you want to shoot this gun, you are gonna have to load your own. Tite group is not suitable for an open powder. Follow the advice above and go to the 38 super pages for more info.

[Sarge]

Factory 38 super is a mouse fart load compared to what most open guns run these days

[bountyhunter]

What you have to understand is the comp bleeds off the force used to make the slide move backwards. So, you need more power and alighter recoil spring.

+1 That's exactly how a comp woks. The forward shooting gasses go into an "expansion chamber" and then slam into a wall generating a forward force that offsets much of the recoil force which is what operates the gun. That reduces recoil and muzzle lift but also reduces the ability of the slide to drive to the rear and cycle the gun.

Edited December 28, 2014 by bountyhunter

[Dranoel]

Any pics of the pistol? One other thing that may help is reducing the weight of the slide. The less mass/inertia to overcome, the easier for it to cycle.

And I do agree with the loads. Even +P is a light load in an open gun. They require a lot of pressure to get the comp to work and still cycle. The kind of pressure that would blow out case heads in a stock barrel. That's why ramped barrels with fully supported chambers are a must.

[GrumpyOne]

The only factory 38 super that might run in the gun would be Cor-Bon...it's the hottest out there...but very expensive.

[dansedgli]

I run a 9lb spring when I shoot minor with my trubor. It works fine.

[Sarge]

I run a 9lb spring when I shoot minor with my trubor. It works fine.

WOW! Interesting. I run an 8 with 9MAJOR. The smoothest is a 7 but figured that might have contributed to my slide cracking.

[GrumpyOne]

I run a 9lb in mine as well...I had tried an 8lb, then cut a couple of coils off, and it still wouldn't run factory ammo. My slide is also very heavy compared to most open guns...no lightening cuts at all...not even any dovetails for sights...

[GrumpyOne]

Sarge, were you running a shock buff when your slide cracked?

[dansedgli]

Mine is a standard trubor slide too. Do you have barrel ports?

I run a 12lb spring for 38s major. I think that is what they come with standard.

I notice a lot of guys here run really light Springs.

9 felt hard on the gun, I could really feel the slide beating the frame. It was a bit hard on my wrists too.

Edited December 29, 2014 by dansedgli

[GrumpyOne]

No barrel ports...and unless your gun is older than mine, the slide is lighter...almost guarantee it...mine is not even flat on the rear...let me find a pic...

[Sarge]

Sarge, were you running a shock buff when your slide cracked?

nope. Matt builds them with 8lb variable rate springs

[dansedgli]

Your right, mine has milled section on the rear.

[SWLover]

Re: GrumpyOne, My Caspian is identical to the 38 super you pictured.

OK, I read every reply. I tried to cover every detail on the Caspian, but I failed to tell all.

First, When the Caspian did eject the empty, it sent it forward, I mean straight forward.

When the gunsmith said the ejection port was to small, I realized he was right.

Then to the discussion about springs, I changed the sping to 11 #s and that was no help.

I even cut off several rounds during the time I spent running the test.

When I got it back from the smith, he had 7 or 8 spings included in a bag. He obviously tried many.

Before I came to this forum, I came across a section of the 38/357 portion that spoke to reloads for the 38 super.

I am not a seasoned reloader, only novice.

I have reloaded several thousand 38's and about 500 38 supers.

I have about 5 pounds of Hogdon Titegroup as powder is hard to come by in our area.

Then Mike 4045 commented about 160PF and I'm in need of someone explaining that as I am lost.

I have a Lee precision scale ordered and planned to work up a load that would meet or slightly exceed 38 super +P loads.

I use a Lee progressive reloader and have studyied the disk capacities in CC and then converted to grains.

Hogdon gives the minimum load as 4.2 grains and the max as 6.1.

Are you guys saying that the max is still too light?

I'm going to add one note to this as I'm wondering...I have two Kimbers in 38 super, one in 4" and the other in 5".

They seem to perform well with the standard round and with +P and my reloads with 4.2 grains.

I'll know more come the end of the week after range time.

I want to add one note. I favor 38/357/38 supers. I even shoot 38 supers in my lever 38/357's. Rossi & Henry's S&W 60-14's and the S&W 686.

As long as the ejector grabs the ring, I shoot them.

Edited December 29, 2014 by SWLover

[GrumpyOne]

Tite group is not gonna cut it. Way too fast. 160 PF (power factor) . Power factor is determined by the velocity of the bullet times the weight of the bullet, divided by 1000.

Yes, max will most likely be too light. You need a much slower powder...like Longshot, VV N105, most any powder in that burn rate area would be better than TG.

As for the angle of ejection, that can be caused by the under powered rounds, the angle cut on the ejector, the slide not moving fsst enough, or the ejection port being too small (doubtful).

Put a 9lb spring in, buy a lb of Longshot and some 115-130 grain bullet heads, start at 8 grains and 1.235 OAL, and work up the powder charge until it runs, watching the primers for signs of cratering, flow, or smearing.

Edit to add: it's not really about how fast the bullet is moving, but about how much gas the bullet is producing when fired. You need the extra gas by a high powder weight to force the slide back after the comp has bled off the excess.

[superdude]

As mentioned, Titegroup is not ideal for this purpose. The limitation is that Titegroup uses very little charge weight, and the amount of recoil a powder produces is tied to its charge weight. The more powder weight required for the same velocity, the greater the recoil. Because the compensator slows down the slide, a powder that requires more charge weight will produce a stronger recoil impulse, which is what you need to keep your gun compensated gun running. A max load of Titegroup might or might not be enough for your gun to operate. But you won't know until you try it. Here are a couple of resources that might help explain what is happening with the gunpowder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil#Including_the_ejected_gas

http://38super.net/Pages/Recoil.html

http://38super.net/Pages/Gunpowder.html

You might find this website useful with respect to information about the 38 Super: http://38super.net/

[Sarge]

I'm going to add one note to this as I'm wondering...I have two Kimbers in 38 super, one in 4" and the other in 5".

They seem to perform well with the standard round and with +P and my reloads with 4.2 grains.

Do they have comps on them? Comps change everything.

[SWLover]

Thanks guys, This Caspian is my first 1911 with a compensator.

I'll follow your suggestions.

You all have been a great help!

Superdude, I appreciate the links.

After reading the info provided in the links I now have a greater understanding of what you guys were telling me.

I appreciate the powder suggestions also.

Edited December 29, 2014 by SWLover

[dansedgli]

Put a 9 or lighter pound spring in it before starting a new load if you don't need to make major. I shoot the ammo I normally shoot in my Trojan with the light spring.

My cases go forward shooting minor with the 12lb spring too. Most times the case will stovepipe though.

I'd rather spend $7 than change my press around.

The extra weight of the comp also means everything is slower to unlock so you will need a lighter spring than in your other guns so it will cycle.

[bountyhunter]

If it absolutely won't cycle with reasonable ammo, the compensator can be tweaked by opening up the hole at the front where the round comes through. That will reduce the amount of forward force so you will get a little more recoil (which is what operates your action). Open it very gradually.

Edited December 30, 2014 by bountyhunter