G Kuper Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 When you're just blazin' away how fast are your splits? Assume 3-5 yards, no need for sights. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 G, Funny thing I've noticed, there is no reason not to watch your sights, even on targets 3-5 yards. To shoot real fast you have to be focused on something, might as well be your sights right? On real close targets shooting limited the front post never leaves the A zone so my splits are all based on what I see and at 3-5 yards they are about .14-.15, if it is cold out they increase to .17-.18. Funny thing is I can miss a target at 3 feet if I am not focusing on something, preferably my sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 At close distances, like 3-5 yards I see a relationship of sights to sighting plane to target face. Some shooters refer to this as looking "through" the sights. I use that relationship to confirm my index and to call the shot. Brian calls it a type two focus. In his class, Ron Avery called it a "soft sight picture". Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of not directing your focus. Like L2S pointed out, your focus might as well be directed on your sights. Remember, focus and awareness are what allows us to shoot at high speeds and both of those depend on visual inputs. My splits run .11 to .13 when I am cranking it on. Target to target transitions at 3-5 yards are just a little slower than the split. I used to think the high speed "in your face" cranking was really cool. As my shooting has evolved, all of the close up blasting has almost become a pet peeve. It seems to me like the close yardage hose mode stuff is probably what holds a lot of newer shooters back. In their quest for speed a lot of shooters never develop an adequate foundation in the fundamentals and/or they allow speed to erode the fundamentals of calling the shot and follow through. (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 3:40 pm on Mar. 12, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 ...the close yardage hose mode stuff is probably what holds a lot of newer shooters back. Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Kuper Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 "...the close yardage hose mode stuff is probably what holds a lot of newer shooters back. " This is probably true, cause as far as this goes my splits avg slightly faster than yours (.10-.12) with say 90% As. At this range, I focus almost entirely on not yanking the trigger and I still blink/flinch enough that I don't see the sights shooting this fast. My best split times with good hits at 7-10yds run to almost 1/2 sec. I gotta get rid of the blinking. Happily there's been plenty of good info on that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 my target to target splits are usually about .40-.50 secs at about 7-10 yards, with 90% A hits. second shot splits on the same target are consistantly at about .14 secs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Mega, Those are really long target transitions for someone with splits of .14 @ 7 yards. My splits may be a bit slower than your smokin .14's, but my transitions on El' pres are about .24-.25 You might want to think about shooting with a little more control and you will increase your overall speed/hits a bunch. Just my 2 cents. G, .1 - .12 splits, that would make Eric G. (the current world champion) envious. He says he only gets those splits 1 in every 30-40 tries on his website. His average is .13-.14 as I recall. Look at this http://www.maxmichel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7 Max only has average splits of about .13 on el prez and he is one of the best out there. If these guys don't use .1's I doubt it is serving you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Mega, Lead with the eyes to get your transition speed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Kuper Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 L2S, I'm surprised myself that my finger apparently moves quickly. It doesn't even seem superfast when I do it. I play alot of video games...maybe pounding on the mouse helps . I wish games would improve my accuracy and transitions. I'll have to pay attention to my target transitions as till now I've been focused on other stuff. I have a feeling they're pretty bad tho . Spending too much time on reloads I think. Looking at the time in the reload thread, I'm catching up to the A/B guys at about 2.5 for a good time and an avg of 3. Of course, my last 'match' I chucked a mag 30 across the room . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 G, It's all about the seeing. If your mag changes are 2.5-3 I would start there. It takes alot of visual patience to look, sight, magwell, sight. Make sure you are seeing what you need to see to get the job done. A/B reloads should be 1.5 or less I would think. A lot of A shooters can draw, shoot, reload, shoot in 2 seconds. Target transitions are nothing more than getting your eyes to the next target as quick as you can, the gun will follow. At 7 yards if the targets are side by side, your transitions should be about the same as your splits. If they are not, you are NOT controling your shooting. If your 6 shot string splits are not the same as your 2 shot strings you are not seeing, but double tapping (double tap is one sight picture pull the trigger two times) I would highly recommend breaking that habit ASAP as it will hold you back in the long run. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Kuper Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hey thanks guys. I almost never do this sprayfest. Most of my shooting is done between 7-15 yds. Unfortunately, most of it is done in an indoor range where I'm not allowed to shoot more than 1 target . Other than our local 'matches' I try to get out to the boonies once a month to do some different drills (mult targets). The big things I'm working on now are draw, reload and always seeing my sights. I hope to be able to start actually calling my shots. Improvement is slow tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark123 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 ok...no laughing, but when you are talking about "splits" what the heck are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Your time between shots on the same target. Transitions are the time between shots it takes you to go from one target to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 “Splits” is the time between shots, “transitions” is the time between the last shot at one target and the first shot at the next target. Shooting an El Presidente your timer might read (in seconds): 1.01 Time from buzzer to first shot (your draw) .18 Time between 1st and 2nd shot (split) .32 Time from last on t1 to 1st on t2 (transition) .16 split .35 t2 to t3 (transition) .17 Split 1.24 Time from last shot on t3 to first on t1 (reload, mandatory) .19 split .38 transition .18 split .35 transition .18split The El Prez is three targets, draw and shoot 2 shots each reload and repeat. I know “clear as mud”. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 as for my transition times, they've gotten better. my previous times were based when i was transitioning from limited to open (red dot scope woes ). they're about 0.20-0.32 on a el presidente type stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I don't think anybody has called me slowpoke, but I can do .13 on all splits in a Bill Drill at 7 yards, but more importantly I can do it on demand, cold. That's the goal. Speed is great but if you can't do it in a match, SO WHAT. Compare splits to gauge improvement, but if you only practice that, then that's what you will be able to do. PS I think my timer only goes down to .13 since it has never registered lower. I have tried the left hand trigger technique to try and beat it also. Right can't either and I know I am faster shooting into the berm with no targets playing around. I hear the yellow timers can read lower splits? But .15's will win an Area Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark123 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Your time between shots on the same target. Transitions are the time between shots it takes you to go from one target to another.Perfect! Thank you!“Splits” is the time between shots, “transitions” is the time between the last shot at one target and the first shot at the next target. Shooting an El Presidente your timer might read (in seconds): 1.01 Time from buzzer to first shot (your draw) .18 Time between 1st and 2nd shot (split) .32 Time from last on t1 to 1st on t2 (transition) .16 split .35 t2 to t3 (transition) .17 Split 1.24 Time from last shot on t3 to first on t1 (reload, mandatory) .19 split .38 transition .18 split .35 transition .18split The El Prez is three targets, draw and shoot 2 shots each reload and repeat. Even perfect-er! Thank you, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 When you're just blazin' away how fast are your splits? Assume 3-5 yards, no need for sights. Thanks... I did a 7 yard Bill Drill the a while back with my Major loads in a mostly stock Glock. Splits were .15 and sighted. I'll take those any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I have tried the left hand trigger technique to try and beat it also. Left hand trigger technique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Duane, That is when you hold the gun in your strong hand and then place the index finger of your weak hand in the trigger guard and slap in back and forth as fast as you can (pretend you are pressing a button on a video game). It is something that everyone should try once. It usually results in nearly "full-auto" speed of firing and it sounds similar to a chainsaw at full song. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I bought Eric Grauffel's latest vid, which includes the world shoot. I have watched it 20 times all the way through while riding the exerbike. There are NO lightning fast spilts on there anywhere. I'd guess nothing faster than a .16 or so. His speed comes from everywhere else. He shoots from whatever position he's in when he needs to shoot, with no refinement. And he just flat out runs from spot to spot, even when it's just a few steps, you'd think someone hit FF on the vcr. His transistions are awesome, btw, he shoots the same speed on open targets as he does on hard cover/no shoot targets. Recommended. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I was talking to Bruce Gray a few months ago. Bruce started firing IPSC when IPSC hadn't even been in existence very long, and has shot most of the Nationals ever held. He told me that he's been absolutely fanatical about studying the score sheets of the matches afterwards - as he put it, "an admittedly unscientific but in-depth analysis" - and he's come to the conclusion there's never been a Nationals held that couldn't have been won with .25 splits as long as the shooter hit what they were aiming at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Todd Jarrett said the same thing in class last week. He said his splits average about .20, with transitions running from .23 to .27. His take was to work on improving transitions and not to worry about splits too much. Splits will come down with repetition, transitions take a little more work, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Interesting. Food for thought. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 IMHO, splits more or less take care of themselves. I've posted this before, but way back when I had a freshly minted B-Open card, I spent quite a bit of time working on bill drills and other close-up hosing in an attempt to get my splits down. About the best I ever shot then was a .16, and those only occasionally. A while after that I quit working on them 'cause they never seemed to get any better. Fast forward to a few months ago when I was practicing something else and happened to review the splits on a 7-yard target and saw .15's. Then last week in a match I had a couple of .13's and .14's on some close stuff. I have spent zero time working on splits in the past two years. And you know what? 2 Alphas with .20 splits beats 1 A-1 C with .13 splits everytime. Well, everytime your hit factor is under 15 anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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