Pasley Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Even the really good shooters seem to be slower on Showdown and Roundabout than S&H. I could see taking 1/2 second away from S&H and adding 1/2 second to Showdown. From a match Sevigny shot not long ago. S&H 8.54 Roundabout 9.42 Showdown 10.17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbrow10 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Trying to revive this old thread for some info. 2016 is right around the corner. Any chance that HQ has a scoring system set up yet? Or coded this up? Or will modify the rulebook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I saw mention of Steel Challenge in the upcoming USPSA BOD meeting agenda. I think the meeting is on the 10th of this month. Hopefully we will hear something about the SC changes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The Agenda: Carry Optics discussion Annual Report Submission Approval of DNROI rulings Website/Database update status Pistol Caliber Carbine Division/SCSA discussion Bylaw discussion on election changes Update on BOD forum database and electronic communication policy Carry Optics discussion should include steel challenge. I saw a post from Strader on Facebook saying it was coming to steel challenge this year. I asked when and he didn't reply. PCC is obviously steel challenge related. I hope it passes (Scott did you see many folks shooting it at the Pro-Am?) Website and Database status should include steel challenge as well. I just hope they don't take forever to get the minutes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Zack....I think about 25 people shot PCC at the SE Pro-Am. I didn't get a chance to see anyone shoot it since we weren't squadded with any PCC shooters either day. As far as your comment about CO, it should already be in Practiscore for Steel Challenge with one of the recent updates (or so a little birdy told me). We had considered adding CO for the 2016 East Coast Steel Challenge Championship match, but didn't add it to the registration forms. I think if enough people ask about shooting it for the Championship then we will add if it necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Zack....I think about 25 people shot PCC at the SE Pro-Am. I didn't get a chance to see anyone shoot it since we weren't squadded with any PCC shooters either day. As far as your comment about CO, it should already be in Practiscore for Steel Challenge with one of the recent updates (or so a little birdy told me). We had considered adding CO for the 2016 East Coast Steel Challenge Championship match, but didn't add it to the registration forms. I think if enough people ask about shooting it for the Championship then we will add if it necessary. Thanks for the info about the pro-am that's less than I would have thought but that's an expensive match to shoot. Open, Limited and PCC would have been $500 in entry fees. Regarding CO in PractiScore - you can add any division you want. What I think Phil was talking about on Facebook was they would either add it as a recognized division or at least a provisional one. I'd like to see it added to Steel Challenge, at all levels, starting 1 Jan 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 So do you have to shoot 4 stages all at the same match? Or could a club treat the 8 original stages like the classifier at a USPSA match, and only shoot 1 (or maybe 2) per match and get classified after you get 4 different ones? Our local club usually runs a 6 stage match, with 1 or occasionally 2 original stages and the rest are the brainchild of our match director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 So do you have to shoot 4 stages all at the same match? Or could a club treat the 8 original stages like the classifier at a USPSA match, and only shoot 1 (or maybe 2) per match and get classified after you get 4 different ones? Our local club usually runs a 6 stage match, with 1 or occasionally 2 original stages and the rest are the brainchild of our match director. The details about the proposed new classification system are very vague. Many of us have emailed HQ for more details, but don't have the answers yet. Hopefully some of the details get worked out in the month's USPSA board meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 So do you have to shoot 4 stages all at the same match? Or could a club treat the 8 original stages like the classifier at a USPSA match, and only shoot 1 (or maybe 2) per match and get classified after you get 4 different ones? Our local club usually runs a 6 stage match, with 1 or occasionally 2 original stages and the rest are the brainchild of our match director. The details about the proposed new classification system are very vague. Many of us have emailed HQ for more details, but don't have the answers yet. Hopefully some of the details get worked out in the month's USPSA board meeting. Thanks. Hopefully they can get it figured out sooner than later, 2016 is fast approaching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesquire Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) So at my second Steel Challenge match I scored 11.61 on S&H and just under 18 seconds on Showdown and 17 on Round a bout. Those are supposed to be roughly similar numbers? Who the hell shoots those the same? Apprently I'm an M (and nearly a GM) at S&H and like low B or C on the other two. I do think my time was entered wrong on showdown though. Edited November 16, 2015 by Wesquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 So at my second Steel Challenge match I scored 11.61 on S&H and just under 18 seconds on Showdown and 17 on Round a bout. Those are supposed to be roughly similar numbers? Who the hell shoots those the same? Apprently I'm an M (and nearly a GM) at S&H and like low B or C on the other two. I do think my time was entered wrong on showdown though. I never noticed they had Showdown listed as the same proposed classification time as S&H and Roundabout. Even if you look at Max Michel and the other pro's times they are a good bit slower on Showdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) So at my second Steel Challenge match I scored 11.61 on S&H and just under 18 seconds on Showdown and 17 on Round a bout. Those are supposed to be roughly similar numbers? Who the hell shoots those the same? Apprently I'm an M (and nearly a GM) at S&H and like low B or C on the other two. I do think my time was entered wrong on showdown though. I never noticed they had Showdown listed as the same proposed classification time as S&H and Roundabout. Even if you look at Max Michel and the other pro's times they are a good bit slower on Showdown. Actually I was wrong, they aren't too far off. Below in the attachment are Max's best times. His time on Showdown is faster than his S&H time. Crazy. Mine are similar now that I look at it....well...not similar to Max's times, but they are close to each other in Open with 12.29 for Showdown, 11.60 for S&H and 11.57 for Roundabout. I think people automatically assume S&H is the fastest stage, but if you look at most people's stats, it isn't. Edited November 16, 2015 by scottlep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesquire Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 So at my second Steel Challenge match I scored 11.61 on S&H and just under 18 seconds on Showdown and 17 on Round a bout. Those are supposed to be roughly similar numbers? Who the hell shoots those the same? Apprently I'm an M (and nearly a GM) at S&H and like low B or C on the other two. I do think my time was entered wrong on showdown though. I never noticed they had Showdown listed as the same proposed classification time as S&H and Roundabout. Even if you look at Max Michel and the other pro's times they are a good bit slower on Showdown. Actually I was wrong, they aren't too far off. Below in the attachment are Max's best times. His time on Showdown is faster than his S&H time. Crazy. Mine are similar now that I look at it....well...not similar to Max's times, but they are close to each other in Open with 12.29 for Showdown, 11.60 for S&H and 11.57 for Roundabout. I think people automatically assume S&H is the fastest stage, but if you look at most people's stats, it isn't. Screen Shot 2015-11-16 at 3.35.35 PM.jpg Look at the production times and their average times. Best runs with an open gun after hundreds of attempts isn't really a good judge. Give someone an open rimfire gun and a million tries, all the stages are going to have more similar times because they are all 5 shots and there's not a ton of difference in the pure transition time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) my expectation is that the rimfire classification system will be very similiar to the current centerfire system since both use the same 8 stages .... Outer Limits & Speed Option only used for ranking & the other 6 for classification. Your best time in each individual stage gets recorded and once you've shot all 6 you'll have a legit classification. No real reason to change any of that. What I am curious about is how they will start off everyone's classification ... will they go back and say use data from any sanctioned match you shot in 2015 or maybe even later or will they just make everyone earn a classification from the beginning ...? Edited November 16, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Are they not differentiating between iron sight revolver and open revolver? Seiichi Are they not differentiating between iron sight revolver and open revolver? Seiichi SCSA doesn't have an Open Revolver division. If it has a comp, dot or optic on it, then it goes in to Open with semi-autos. USPSA is set up the same way. There was a Champion at this years World Speed Shooting Championships (15 Shooters) .... Congrats David Olhasso Edited November 17, 2015 by UFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Are they not differentiating between iron sight revolver and open revolver? Seiichi SCSA doesn't have an Open Revolver division. If it has a comp, dot or optic on it, then it goes in to Open with semi-autos. USPSA is set up the same way. I thought ISR was Iron Sighted Revolver and OSR was Open Revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjordan78 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 ISR and OSR need to be addressed in the rule book. Also think they need to re evaluate the peak stage times. Fastest times and both the Nationals and this week at World's were substantially faster than their proposed times. I do agree there should be much more thought put into how the times are broken down. Hopefully this was all just a general idea put out and more thought put into it eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 my expectation is that the rimfire classification system will be very similiar to the current centerfire system since both use the same 8 stages .... Outer Limits & Speed Option only used for ranking & the other 6 for classification. Your best time in each individual stage gets recorded and once you've shot all 6 you'll have a legit classification. No real reason to change any of that. What I am curious about is how they will start off everyone's classification ... will they go back and say use data from any sanctioned match you shot in 2015 or maybe even later or will they just make everyone earn a classification from the beginning ...? How is a classification based on less than 6 stages any less legit? I would expect them to take our current times, by division, and calculate our classification based on times they already have. Requiring everyone to start over as steel U would be dumb. Like the rest of you I am hoping there are lots of details in the upcoming BoD minutes. If not I'll ask Troy about it when we have our rules discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) because you get 120 secs recorded in your classification for any stage you haven't shot at a sanctioned match ... pretty sure for most shooters a 120 sec stage time is not really 'legit' ... however, there is one or 2 that I've met where 120 would actually be a personal best on a stage ... agree that starting everyone at 'no classification' when there is plenty of sanctioned match data is dumb but we are talking about the current BOD of USPSA, right? Edited November 17, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It will take a lot of research and time in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) So the BOD Minutes from the 11/10/2015 meeting are posted. I still see no mention or any discussion about the proposed SCSA classification system. Has anyone heard anything about it?https://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20151110.pdf Edited November 30, 2015 by scottlep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Will make it to B class soon under the current or the new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 So the BOD Minutes from the 11/10/2015 meeting are posted. I still see no mention or any discussion about the proposed SCSA classification system. Has anyone heard anything about it?https://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20151110.pdf Why am I not surprised .... I'd probably just e-mail Mike Foley and ask him to find out what's going on and then get an update out as soon as he takes over .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 New system is supposed to take effect January 1, 2016. I don't think there has been any discussions at a BOD meeting since December 2014. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) So the BOD Minutes from the 11/10/2015 meeting are posted. I still see no mention or any discussion about the proposed SCSA classification system. Has anyone heard anything about it? I sent an email to all 8 AD's and DNROI thanking them for approving PCC (even as a provisional division) and asked if anyone would provide an update on the status. Based on what I read in the minutes about the updated database and web site I would say we won't be switching over come 1 Jan 2016. . ETA: Bruce Gary, AD1 replied to my comment on the USPSA forum. He wrote: the steel challenge classification system won't go live until the database/website mods are done. If I understood correctly, the structure of the database needed to be changed to accommodate. So no new classification system until sometime in the first quarter. Edited December 1, 2015 by ZackJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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