School me on Novak vs. Warren on M&P Pro

[Lior]

Dear M&P shooters,

My M&P Pro came with a front sight containing a 1.5 mm fiber optic and a Novak marked rear sight. Neither of the sights were at the center of the bore axis and had to be zeroed.

That's not the question. At the suggestion of people more professional than I, I bought some Warren sights to replace the factory sights. As I don't have a punch or a press for drifting out sights in a controlled environment, I enlisted the services of a competent gunsmith to do this job and check zero. He recommended that I keep the original front sight, because it was too thin, with too much light bar on either side of the blade, which would affect shooting accuracy. At his behest I agreed to leave the original front sight and have just got the rear Warren sight with its nice U and chamfered edges. Haven't shot the gun yet in IPSC training, which is the next task at hand. Courses of fire here have tend to have targets that are 5-20 meters away.

I also shoot Olympic air pistol, and I like small light bars around the front blade.

What do you folks think? Is the armorer right in suggesting keeping the original front sight? Does the U of the Warren notch still work well with a thick front post? Any other tips are welcome.

[Jadeslade]

Novaks were developed for 1911 .45 Colt's for carry weapons. They were revolutionary and still the best sights for 1911. They are fixed and need to be set up for ball ammo, as originally designed. However, a lot of shooters like them for competition. That are fast, simple, and once you get your aim points, really reliable. They have transferred very well to other platforms and calibers over the years. The designs that are available on a lot of guns are variations on Novak designs. Done to avoid patent infringement mostly, and to bring in new ideas that people have-somewhat. Warrens are a Novak variant. Not sure what Warrens you are running. Dave Sevigny really got Warren on the map with his Glock sights, which featured wide light bars, plain black rear and plain black squared profile sight picture. You have to decide for yourself what you like, with the benefit of training with someone who can explain light bars, how to shoot hard targets, and who have used different sights over the years. You can call Wayne Novak and let him tell you about sights. I don't know how to get a hold of Scott Warren, he shoots in Area 7 and Single Stack Nationals, but some people you know probably know how to get him. These guys can talk for hours and are really cool. Wayne a little crabby, but he's allowed. So, just shoot what you have, if you don't like the results, go back to your gunsmith and change it back. I tend to not mix and match sights, using complete sets, but your gunsmith may be dead on, for you.

[RMark]

Lior,

I have 2 M&P Pro's and love them. Did you not like the Factory Novak sights? Do you want a smaller dot? I had a Glock 17 with Taran Tactical Innovations. The TTI's have small dot with room in the back sight..I gave up the Glock and XDM for the M&P Pro's.

Sights are paired to match up for POA. You will have to see how they work for you.

Mark

[bockerSV]

I personally hated the stock Novaks, your gunsmith is correct, having more space will effect accuracy but think of the hardest shot you'll ever take in uspsa/ipsc. Not very hard of a shot, right? I think having a thin front blade makes it very quick to pick the front sight up and if you have a chance, do some testing, take up a sight picture with your front sight all the way to the left of your rear sight, then right, then high and low. You will find that the hits are not drastically far apart on close-medium distance targets.

[bockerSV]

** I was talking about using the Warren sights, by the way. With the thin front blade, love it.

[Rob1125]

I did something similar with my M&P Pro 5". I went with a 10-8 performance rear with the u notch. So far I like having the thin front sight with the u notch rear. I find it makes it easier for me to acquire the front sight. If I am patient, I have no problem with 8 inch plates at 30+ yards. I would say to give it a try. If you don't like it you can always have the FS changed.

[afletcher1965]

I just added the Dawson Precision blacked-out serrated competition rear sight and the (thin bladed) FO front sight. Personally I really prefer the thin front sight because it is easier to pick up the front sight, gives you more of a view of the target and to me it is easier to center the front blade in the rear notch when you have some open space instead of having the front sight fill the rear notch. So my vote is for a thinner front sight.

Edited December 2, 2014 by afletcher1965

[Nick S]

I think the FO fiber on the Pro is too big. I think the sights are otherwise fine. You could just replace the front with a .100 width sight and see how you like that. Otherwise the Warrens (or Sevignys) are great. For adjustables the Dawson Adj Rear and .100 front are my choice.

Good luck

[nmbpman]

The Dawson Precision sights are very nice if you don't like the big FO. They have a serrated front edge and the FO is inset into the metal blade. I use their sights on most of my pistols. They have different heights if you need to change the elevation of you POI. On my M&P, I paired their front sight with their adjustable rear, which seemed to be a good combination for me.

[Avedis]

This is very accurate of how the full set of warren sights look

[Mbiker101]

I agree the Novak fiber is too big, I put Dawson's on my glocks and getting ready to on my pro.

[SuspectXX]

I have the Warren/Sevigny competition set on both of my guns and would not have it any other way. The stock Novak's are good to get you by till you can change the out.

[Hallz]

I have and like both, however I am going to go with a .100 in front and stick with the factory rear Novak on my M&P.

I have the Comp & Tactical Sevigny sites on my Glocks. My eyes prefer the Sevigny Competition sites w/ fo front for action pistol to the Tacticals Avedis posted above,.... A little less visual distraction and draws my eye to the front site vs target focus.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Hallz

[wgj3]

There was an excellent article on this matter in Front Sight a while back. Thinner front blade makes a big difference when more accuracy is required. Narrower rear notch means that there is less room to miss if the front sight is within the notch even if not perfectly aligned. There is no perfect sight setup for everyone.

Edited December 24, 2014 by wgj3

[auto]

This is very accurate of how the full set of warren sights look

I have not seen a red tritium dot front anywhere, or is that fiber or paint?

Edited December 24, 2014 by auto

[Hallz]

This is very accurate of how the full set of warren sights look

I have not seen a red tritium dot front anywhere, or is that fiber or paint?

Fiber optic, the Warrens come with red or green for your preference.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Hallz

[auto]

This is very accurate of how the full set of warren sights look

I have not seen a red tritium dot front anywhere, or is that fiber or paint?

Fiber optic, the Warrens come with red or green for your preference.

Thanks.

[Mbiker101]

So I agree with most the Novak front fiber is too wide so I'm going with the dawson precision .100 fiber front.

Question is since I'm sticking with the stock Novak rear, what height front should I get? I don't want the combat sight picture, just regular top of sights lined up with bullseye.

[Hallz]

So I agree with most the Novak front fiber is too wide so I'm going with the dawson precision .100 fiber front.

Question is since I'm sticking with the stock Novak rear, what height front should I get? I don't want the combat sight picture, just regular top of sights lined up with bullseye.

Depends on your POA and POI. Dawsons Presision has a great guide to calculate it

[Mbiker101]

Thanks hallz, I should check poi, it was low when I shot like combat sights but was hoping someone has already made the change and done the calculations.

[greyhounder]

My only problem with the thin front and wide sight bars in competition I tend to fire when see the whole FO so shots are off as still close to the rear side, prefer a smaller light bar.