Winter Dry Fire Practice for 3 Gun

[Moltke]

What are the things I can practice during the winter related to 3 Gun?

Shotgun quad loading

High speed pistol dry fire

Get a gym membership!

Anyone got anything else?

[Vlad]

I'm a 3gun nobody, but for me I've been doing some practice on getting the guns ready to shoot. What I mean by that is that I've watched myself on video and I've noticed I'm wasting lots of time dumping guns and picking them up and getting to the shooting. So I've been adding gun pick ups, gun charging, reloading etc to my practice. If I can get that rifle shooting in 1 to 1.5 seconds instead of 3 that may be 10-15 seconds shaved from overall time. This way I also practice getting the long guns up in the correct stance as well. You can also add getting in and out of slings and that sort of transition.

[MickB]

move to AZ so you can shoot matches through the winter?

Mick

[Moltke]

Nice

[dogtired]

For lack of anything to add:

http://3gunnation.com/news/details/artmid/509/articleid/613561/dry-fire-lessons-from-a-jedi-master

[MarkCO]

We just did a dryfire session for some locals as the start of a training group. It is the first time I have incorporated dry-fire into 3Gun training for students, but I saw the advantages it provided for my 13 year old when CHA-LEE started working with him. I will give you a few ideas.

This from a student...

I really enjoyed your clinic the other night and learned a tremendous amount! It was all I had hoped for and more! In fact, there was so much, that I'm afraid I've already forgotten some of the drills I should be doing.

So, first, is to take notes. Second thing that is important in dryfire (especially for 3Gunners) is to set goals, or else it becomes VERY boring. Squirrel. Third, is to use dry-fire to evaluate techniques. Fourth, is to keep track of metrics for stage breakdowns at matches and to prove in live fire.

We worked on pistol draws and reloads and when the students were hitting 1.5 second draws, I challenged them to look at the difference between my draw and their draws and then to figure out where I was beating them (a technique that Manny Bragg reinforces in his courses). We made a few little technique adjustments and got them over 1/4 second off their draws. If your technique is poor, practicing that is not good. Then we did transitions. Again, challenging them to find the technique differences that let me beat them by 50% on wide transitions. Learning the ballerina effect was very enlightening for them.

With shotgun, we do load 1, 2, 4 rounds, on and off shoulder, open bolt reloads with singles and Twins, then some quads and some twins. We also do transitions off of those loads to do a few things at a time. Then, it is time to start transitions from pistol to SG and SG to pistol. We use movement in between in most cases.

With rifle, snap from ready to a first target from table, low ready, port arms, then transitions, then off-hand to 150 yards (technique!) Finally, we elevate the heartrate by 50% and do prone arrays.

Here are a few of the arrays we use.

I try to get students to go for the main course in practice...meaning work on what gets you the most time reduction on stages. For most, that will be explosive movement unless you are shooting, transitions (guns and on targets). Save things like sub 1 second draws for dessert...or once everything else has been sufficiently improved.

Edited November 20, 2014 by MarkCO

[MarkCO]

1. Shotgun quad loading

2. High speed pistol dry fire

Get a gym membership!

Are you finishing at 75% or better at majors? If yes, good list, if no, then I would delete #1 and #2. Those two are maybe a 5% benefit in the overall scope of things in 3Gun and, if you look at the top competitors, you might be closer than you think just on loading and pistol shooting flat footed. Do everything fast except execution of shooting fundamentals and you will place well.

[Sterling White]

Move to the southwest and shoot 12 mos!

[Moltke]

Well I came in 78 / 279 at FNH TACOPS, so that's the 27% placing for the prize table but 59% of leader's 100% score (Greg Jordan sets a high curve). So I'm not sure how to judge that?

[MarkCO]

Not a hard and fast rule Ken, just an approximation. It really helps to watch your videos vs. some top guys and see where you are giving up the biggest chunks of time. Call up the best shooter at your club, offer to drive to the range and buy lunch to practice with him or her. Run the same drills and see where they are beating you. Then focus on those large chunks first.

Everyone wants to have a sub 1s pistol draw and an equally fast reload, that is cool, and yes well worth working on, but there is a lot of lower hanging fruit for most of us before those. If I could have a 2 second draw and 2 second reload and do everything else as fast as Jordan, I would have a lot of top 5s and should then be working on the draw.

[Moltke]

Not a hard and fast rule Ken, just an approximation. It really helps to watch your videos vs. some top guys and see where you are giving up the biggest chunks of time. Call up the best shooter at your club, offer to drive to the range and buy lunch to practice with him or her. Run the same drills and see where they are beating you. Then focus on those large chunks first.

Everyone wants to have a sub 1s pistol draw and an equally fast reload, that is cool, and yes well worth working on, but there is a lot of lower hanging fruit for most of us before those. If I could have a 2 second draw and 2 second reload and do everything else as fast as Jordan, I would have a lot of top 5s and should then be working on the draw.

So true. You're talking about ROI (return on investment)?

The pistol shooting except for the occasional miss isn't holding me back too much so why put in hours each week?

I've got a 1 sec draw, 1.5 sec reload, .20 splits, .30 transitions for close targets - not record setting but not trash.

I suggested it because of people like Steve Anderson and Ben Stoeger who have these dry fire books and plans... and frankly its something to do that I'm aware of.

But there's much more to 3 Gun like you mentioned 1-2-4 reloads for the shotgun with an closed & open bolt? What is that?

I only practice quad loading because its what every was switching to when I started and its the only way I see people load - so is there a benefit to practice the other loading methods?

I'll look up some pro videos and start the review process too thanks

[MarkCO]

Yes, ROI. Anderson and Stoeger shoot USPSA pistol, the draw, and more so the reload are huge in USPSA pistol, which is why I shoot it...3Gun practice.

So 1-2-4 reloads, closed and open bolt. Regardless of your reloading method, there may be times where it is stage beneficial to load with a closed or an open bolt, 1 or 2 rounds. So I practice that weakhand leaving the gun mounted. I also practice the open bolt load from the OSS. The weakhand twin load with the gun mounted takes some practice, but once you do it, it is pretty cool. A few months ago, at a local match, some guys saw me do it, and were baffled. I showed them and then a few tried it on the next stage...disaster struck. You have to practice this stuff.

If you can hit Quads on the run 100% of the time, sure, stay with that. But you will need select loads, 1 or 2, at times. Race someone doing quads and twins and ensure which, over say 30 shells, results in the least time per shell loaded INTO the gun. For the majority of 3 gunners, the Twin load is going to be the winner. Honestly, I want all my close competitors loading Quads on the clock. I keep one pinwheel set up so that I can use it strong hand if needed, but I can load Miller style weakhand with the pinwheels too, so the traditional caddies are all gone. I'll try to post up a video of the 1 and 2 shot Twins load yet this week.

[Moltke]

I'd like to see the vids thanks Mark

[Gakracker]

I am seeing some talk concerning gong from dry fire to laser practice. Seems there are some really interesting coputer target systems being offered now that allow stand and shoot type stages similar to what could be done at a range. Sirt and actual gun conversions are currently offered for this. Best I can figure is that you would likely be limited to rifle and pistol, without mag changes, but you will have the ability to review sequence, hits and time with some. The mag changes, shotgun loading, etc would be better handled the old fashioned way with dummy rounds on a separate training session.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Gakracker

[Therealkoop]

I use some of the popular dryfire books, and adapt the same drills for rifle stuff.

Also practice shotgun loading and loading on the move.

Michigan sucks, 5 month 3 gun deadzone every year really knocks you down.

[ropsitos]

I shoot airsoft in the garage over the winter. Scale the target size to match the shorter distance. Made mine from plywood.

Shoot both rifle and pistol that way.

More engaging than dry fire for me.

[Craig N]

I'm a 3gun nobody, but for me I've been doing some practice on getting the guns ready to shoot. What I mean by that is that I've watched myself on video and I've noticed I'm wasting lots of time dumping guns and picking them up and getting to the shooting. So I've been adding gun pick ups, gun charging, reloading etc to my practice. If I can get that rifle shooting in 1 to 1.5 seconds instead of 3 that may be 10-15 seconds shaved from overall time. This way I also practice getting the long guns up in the correct stance as well. You can also add getting in and out of slings and that sort of transition.

On the last 3 gun nation show, they were talking about one of the guys who transitioned so smooth and mounted/dumped the guns so effortlessly and how it really sped up his runs.

[MarkCO]

I'd like to see the vids thanks Mark

Ken, my bad, I totally forgot to do this video. Blake and I were doing some winter 3Gun dryfire practice today so I got a clip for you. Regardless of whether you load TWinS or Quads, weak or strong, this is a good tool to have in the box. For me, it removes any need for having a traditional caddie and keeps my loads in sequence for any kind of shell. I can also use it for select load of a slug if needed. Besides, I can't beat the time with any other method anyway.

[Moltke]

Thanks got it Mark

[trodrig]

That's slick Mark! I gotta start practicing that! Thanks for posting the video!!

Edited January 8, 2015 by trodrig

[MarkCO]

Here is another quick tip so you don't ever have to chamber the SG during loading practice.

[Moltke]

Nice!

[Nebwake]

yea you will really save your case rims by not chambering and rather depressing the catch. we do this with duty shotguns as well to save your duty ammo from getting torn up after a year of loading, unloading everyday.

[ihocky2]

This is not really dry fire in the true sense, but a drill I like to run over the winter is simply holding the rifle. Pick a spot on the wall and using proper form, take a sight picture and hold it there until you start to wobble to much too make an accurate shot. You can do this once a day or a few times a day, but it helps develop the muscle memory and strengthen the support muscles. The muscles used for most rifle shots and not subject to endurance stress often, usually short periods of work, this helps to strengthen the endurance in those muscles. Do this standing, sitting, kneeling, or any position that does not provide good support.