Goals devalued

[dirtypool40]

Not sure where I am headed with this, I have just had some long talks with myself lately as I crash yet again into the wall of "devaluing" my own goals and accomplishments.

You guys have been a wealth of information and advice, so I thought you might have some thoughts on this. Reading back over this, it kinda rambles and hardly makes sense. But thanks for letting me vent at myself

I have been reading a lot on mental training and this is sort of my way of analyzing my lack of progress in this department. Or maybe, more optimistically, this is a stage in my development. Who knows? This will likely stretch on as I wander through my therapy session on BENOS, I don’t blame you for not sticking through it all, but would appreciate comments should you make it to the end.

For me it's a tough, vicious cycle: I set a goal and as I close on it I realize that either I will meet the goal and then tell myself it was easy and therefore not really an accomplishment, or I will fail and be pissed about my lack of effort and embarrassed. I don’t get the “touch down dance” feeling most folks get. I am trying to change that, and that’s really the point of this post.

Enough about that for now, back to pressure of accomplishment and devaluing your own goals.

In one of the books I am reading a guy talks about the pressure he felt as he neared the world record. He knew a time would come when he would be in the middle of a string, and above the world record, only needing to finish smoothly. He was afraid he would choke, knowing he had made it. He trained himself to deal with it by “trying it on”. He would imagine being there, “above the record” as he put it, finishing a string, and telling himself, “it’s ok, I do this all the time”.

I am going through something similar but in a largely negative light. This goal of being a GM (followed naturally by being top so many at the Nats or WS14 etc) is one I have worked at on and off for a long time. No, I am not waiting on GM classifiers to post so I can get my card, but I am slowly closing on the goal through hard work and determination. I find I am thinking too much about the pressure of wearing that “G” next to my name at matches. Now it’s a level I have to keep up, what will my family think about the time and money I “wasted” to gain this (to them) meaningless classification?

Did I deserve it? I mean look how hard I had to work, the really good guys made it easy. Honest, crap like that is floating around in my head.

As background, I have been shooting USPSA for going on six years now (first match in middle 99, race gear in middle 2000) with varying degrees of focus as work and finances allowed. I started in IDPA (all of 98 and half of 99) and it took a while for me to get past all the excuse making that sport had taught me about speed and equipment. I had gone out to IDPA because the gun rags said I had to, to be tactical and I was (at the time) headed into law enforcement.

I lost interest in becoming LEO, and had a falling out with the local IDPA folks so I moved into the bigger pond of USPSA. After being an IDPA “Master”, I was proud to make “B” with a 70.3% average at my first USPSA match, a special classifier.

<<Please, if you want to fight about IDPA pm or email me and we'll call each other names if it pleases you. I'm trying to keep this a mentral training / therapy thread. Thanks. es>>

This is an intricate sport you never quite perfect, like golf; it’s a little different every time and you need to develop the whole game to be great. A good course tests every shot in your bag.

One of the parts I like best is the objectivity of the scoring and classification. You shot the score or you didn’t, it’s simple and tenure has no bearing on anything. To me that’s why a GM card is even worth the paper it’s printed on. I took a hard look at the sport after I had been in it about a year and decided, just for me, that GM would be a great accomplishment and I should try to see if I could make it.

After about two years with a good high cap I made “M” in middle 2002. Work, life and all that stuff got in the way of making GM in any record time, not excuse just fact. It takes hard work to get there. Along the way I continued to respect anyone who put the time in and had mastered our sport enough to earn a GM card. A couple of locals I knew like Paul Whitacre and Shannon Smith made it and deserved it. I feel I have been a competitive M for the last couple of years, but had no illusion I was ready to wear the “scarlet G”.

Now in the last few months I have finally been able to practice regularly, and I am seeing some improvement. But as I stated earlier, now that it is getting closer, maybe within reach, do I still value it?

When we are beginners, we see the things “M” and “GM” shooters do as though they are aliens, magicians, or super heroes. Their hands must glow when they practice, surely they can summon the “force” to do their bidding, as though their skill and accomplishments are magic, not the results of hard work.

An easy example is my IPSC “standard” reload. Four months ago when I came down here, I was bummed because my loads had slowed to around 1.50 in matches. I worked and worked at it, and a couple of weeks ago I pushed my personal best back to .76. No that’s not something I can do every day, but I can get sub 1.00 from the IPSC standard location regularly, with no button and a tiny magwell. My technique is better, I AM quicker than I was. But because it happened slowly over time through hard work, I don’t FEEL faster or like the “Super Hero” I once thought GM’s had to be.

I have never heard anyone else talk about it, but I definitely have a sense of devaluing any accomplishment I earn through hard work.

Don’t get me wrong, I know the GM card is not the end, but merely the next step. I view it like getting a “black belt” in Karate; “now you know the basics and we can show you something really interesting”. But that little change in classification is something I have kept my eyes on, like a lot of us, for several years, and put in a lot of work. I’m going to make it, hopefully sooner than later. My goal now is to be happy when I do.

I read a book that mentioned a quote by Wayne Gretzky in an interview. The goofball reporter say something like “You always seem to have an extra half second, you’re always a little ahead of the play. You must be very gifted.”

The Great One doesn’t bat an eye and responds “thank you, I have worked very hard to be so.”

Looking forward to your thoughts…..

[PaulW]

Eric,

You have the ability already to make GM, you just have to take and allow that "want" to manifest. It will happen, you have come miles from where you once were. The pieces to the puzzle are their, just put them together without restraints.

Making it to GM is not the end, as you say, but rather a beginning. But reaching that peak and staying there takes even more work. You will become your own worst enemy as you set expectations on yourself along with the expectations others set on you. My best advice....."shoot within yourself". DO NOT allow anyone to influence what you already know is true. And of course continue to work hard.

DVC

[raz-0]

USPSA is just like anything else that requires a developed skill. At some point, what you work on improving or perfecting is something that is only meaningful to other people who do it. At some point beyond that it's only going to be meaningful to you because that's the level you are at.

If you devalue your goals, then fail, well apparantly that goal was more than you gave it credit for. If you devalue it and succede, why dwell on it's insignificance? Personally I don't often have that touchdown dance kind of feeling about accomplishing stuff, it's jsut time for the next goal and to get back to work. Once the tool is in the tool chest, the only time I get myself worked up is if it isn't there when I go back to use it.

The mental skills, discipline, and mentality that you have to develop to bring your 90% or better performance to the table every time, and to keep pushing the bar for 100% higher and higher will serve you well beyond just USPSA. (personally I say 90%, because I never let myself believe I've bought 100% of my ability to something ever. That's just tellign yourself you aren't capable of anything more).

[dirtypool40]

yeah, you guys hit the head on the nail. I am using this USPSA G card quest as an example of a problem in general. Even in the post I tend to switch between the old defeatist language and the optimistic "I can" kinda talk I am trying to become accustomed to.

Like this goal and what happens after it, I'm looking for a change in me, so I can value the things I have earned, and work hard for things over time.

PaulW, I appreciate you encouragement, you've seen me shoot since about my second match ever, and you were the first local home grown shooter to make G.

In a funny left handed compliment back in April at the FL State match I bumped into an older senior shooter who I was squadded with at my first Titusville match back in 99. Paul, you'll know the guy, purple grip high polished nickel gun, tube site.

So back in April, we're standing around after the FL State match but before the scores are posted. Outta no where he pipes up with, "yup, we never figured you'd get anywhere the way you shot that first match, you've come a long way."

I had no idea anyone even remembered me, but damn this guy kept tabs. Coulda been I was one of the first IDPA refugees fleeing Buck and CFRPC.

Anyway, I finished 2nd in FL that day on zero practice with a brand new gun to Shannon Smith who was "Hombre in llamas" that weekend.

poco a poco.........little by little.

[XRe]

I'm not a performance shrink or anything - so take this for what it's worth. Here's what I thought of while reading....

This sounds like one of the classics.... Fear of Success with a dash of Fear of Failure thrown in for good measure. One of my (apparently) favorite concoctions.

Devaluing the goal means you don't have to feel as bad about not acheiving it - which gives you permission to fail at that goal, and prevents you have having to face the consequences of making that goal - ie, now you have to shoot directly against the cream of the crop. That's pressure man - and this is your fear's way of trying to own you over it Wonderful the things we do to ourselves, isn't it??? Fear of Failure then pipes up and says "Yeah, but you *have* to succeed at this!"

Realize that you're not giving yourself the same objectiveness that you like about the classification system - you're subjectively judging your performance, and letting it drag you down. If you're tracking your progress on various drills and stages, go back through them, and try to remember what it felt like when you shot those drills back in those earlier times. If you're not tracking them, I can tell you I found that an extremely useful mind game tool for just these sorts of problems - progress is right there on paper and you can't deny it! Or devalue it, for that matter....

Example, similar to your reload example - when I was working on my M card initially, I was really getting frustrated, and feeling that I was actually regressing in my skills. At one point, I was on the range practicing Bill Drills, and getting really upset and frustrated, cause I felt slower than hell. I ended up flipping back in my log book to the same drill from 6 months earlier (apparently, I hadn't really stopped to do this before) - and lo and behold, here on this particular day, I was shooting half a second faster than I had been 6 months prior. How could that be, since I felt so much slower??? That helped my mind a bunch - my attitude immediately turned around when I realized that my perceptions had changed, and that not only had I gotten faster, but I knew I could go even faster than that, now - something which, 6 months previous, would have seemed fairly fantastic....

Final thought - perhaps you've set the wrong goal???? Or, you've only set the end/major goal, and not established sub-goals (ie, smaller bites) to track as well?? By "wrong goal", I mean that maybe achieving GM is not the goal to shoot for - instead, shooting a certain percentage of points with a certain time improvement (or, maybe, an average hit factor improvement??) is a better goal?? Something you can directly control. Sub-goals help track progress more finitely - achieving each small goal has a neat way of leading up to achieving the big goal, and you can achieve each of those sub-goals in a shorter period of time and see more immediate progress.

Hope that helps some, and isn't too far off the mark, anyhow

Dave

[dirtypool40]

No Dave, you're on the right track.

I am a victim of the old "familiarity breeds contempt" syndrome, and who are we more familiar with than ourselves? From TV even books (back when people read) we tend to have two dimensional heros, perfect records, things are clean, record setting and flawless.

I've seen myself from the inside and am not impressed, because I am not flawless, and have fears and hesitation. When someone compliments me, I think they just don't know me well enough and that's why they were "impressed".

My final classifier to make "M" like I posted about in the other "I Hate" thread I started yesterday, was El Prez. It was a 5.79, and came in around 87%. It felt pretty good, and at 87% it IS objectively pretty good. Last month in a match I shot a 4.71 cold and was PISSED about the bad grip and resulting bad points. Objectively I can see an improvement (87% to 94%) but I still have trouble saying good job to myself.

I have begun to keep some stats, simple things like across three targets all A's at varying distances, reloads, bills at different distances etc. It does help, but it's still tuff.

I feel funny airing all this here, but at least in this context there are others who may have struggled with the same thing. Thanks guys.

[spook]

Hey Eric, I think you are blessed with that attitude. Maybe you'll never feel that way yourself (and that's a bitch but also a conditio-sine-qua-non), but I am convinced that most of the real top dogs became the way they are because they strive for perfection instead of "pretty good" performance.

To answer your question:

Did I deserve it? I mean look how hard I had to work, the really good guys made it easy. Honest, crap like that is floating around in my head.

Yes, you deserve it. No, the really good guys didn't make it easily. You just can't see on the inside of the really good guys.

I've seen myself from the inside and am not impressed, because I am not flawless, and have fears and hesitation. When someone compliments me, I think they just don't know me well enough and that's why they were "impressed".

How do you think the top dogs feel when you say you're not worthy?

You're already there man. You just don't realize it yet. Which is pretty funny to see. We're all just waiting for the new thread in the Accomplishments forum, telling us you made GM.

Now go out there and do it!

[XRe]

I feel funny airing all this here, but at least in this context there are others who may have struggled with the same thing.  Thanks guys.

Eric, you're a step ahead recognizing these things in yourself....

As far as airing it goes, I love the analogy presented in the story of Hercules and the Hydra (a lot of mythology is metaphor for real life, you know When Hercules fights the Hydra, he has to hunt it down in a dark, nasty swamp. As he fights it, every time he cuts off one of it's heads, it grows two more in it's place. The fight goes on for a long time, with the Hydra growing ever more powerful.... At one point, Hercules notices that a ray of sunshine makes it down through the canopy of the swamp an strikes the Hydra, killing the head it hits - and it stays dead. He gets the picture, and dives down under the muck, and lifts the Hydra up through the trees and into the sunlight, killing it....

The Hydra is all this negative crap you have locked up in your head. Posting about it here, or talking about it to friends, etc, puts it out in the sun And, like Hercules, the only way to fight it and kill is to stop fighting it and get it out of your head....

Once I get my crap together, and get back to shooting this game, I'm sure I'll return the "favor"

Dave

[Flexmoney]

DP had this thread in the hate Section...but it fits better here.

[redmist10]

This might sound stupid but try setting a goal for a while of just shooting and letting the training you have done to this point (and I assume continuing to do) take you where it takes you and enjoy shooting. Release the pressure of the goal as a means to an end and focus on the event be it a local match or major match as a good time. Start from the point you wake up until you go to bed that night. Enjoy every aspect of the event - not the result in a quantitative G,GM, performance. Let the performance take care of itself.

If after a few times you are not satisfied with the results after you have reviewed them at a distance then you have new goals....find something more rewarding to occupy your time or change your habits to get to where you think you should be....

"Emo-tep.....Emo-tep.....Emo-tep...."

I'll see how many of you get that one...

[diehli]

"Emo-tep.....Emo-tep.....Emo-tep...."

I'll see how many of you get that one...

[Thread Drift] If it's meant to be the chant from The Mummy, it should be "Im-ho-tep..."[/td]

[dirtypool40]

ok, back to the thread, I"ve been emailing a bunch back and forth with some friends about this. I've had a bit of an epiphany (can I use that word here, even if I mis-spell it?).

I am trying to place more value on the journey, instead of the destination. The hard work, both mental and physical I do, is the accomplishment, not the GM card I may or may not receive.

Damn, this personal growth stuff is tough.

[Steve Anderson]

Goals are tricky.

Wait til you get the G. then you'll be faced with the prospect of shooting against Max Freakin' Michel at major matches. He'll be so confident that he'll show you how to shoot every stage his way.

Once you get the G, good goals are hard to come by. The goal should be to win the Nationals, but that's a hard one to believe in every morning at the bathroom mirror.

You'll be competing against the very best, heads up. And you'll know exactly how good you are.

Lanny's audio seminar has a good section on Goals. He talks about pay value being a good arbiter of goals. A goal has to have immediate pay value, or you won't be driven by it.

He closes that section with this:

You can have anything you desire, otherwise you wouldn't desire it.

SA

[dirtypool40]

I have Lanny's book, it should be a must read for serious competitors in any sport, especially ours.

I also have Leor's Toughness, and although it's more nuts and bolts (physical condition, hydration, rest etc) it is a good place to start and check up on.

I don't look at the "G" as a new class to compete in. I already compete in matches agains the field. I am there to win the match not "M" or any special catagory.

I am starting to view the "Scarlet G" as a mile marker and look to continue improving AFTER I have it. (Like how I acted like it was a done deal?). 90% of this sport is half mental (yogi) and I wantto get over that hump and back to competing.

[dirtypool40]

Well it's over a year later, I am home and still can't find time to shoot or focus. I have read a lot on the mental side of things and took a great class with Manny Bragg last month. I really feel I have more of the pieces than I ever have, now it's just find the time and commit to train.

I searched this post out to add a little bump of a quote I just found. It's kind of like that Gretzky quote I used above, only a little less positive, and more on point for this thread.

It kind of sums up what I was feeling when I started this thread, and when I read it today, 15 months later, my mind raced back here, and I thought again: "Others have doubt and see themselves as flawed even in success". Misery loves company.

Anyhoo the quote:

If People knew how hard I worked to aquire my mastery, they wouldn't think it worthwhile at all. - Michaelangelo

Well, in the last six months I haven't "done the work" so I don't deserve the success, but I am gathering the pieces, and will be back.

[Ron Ankeny]

Thanks for bumping this back to the top. Somehow I missed the whole thread the first time around. I gave up on my quest for a GM card because I didn't want to put up with the stigma of being a "Paper GM" at the local level and finishing with the A class shooters at a big match. I even stopped shooting the iron sighted divisions for almost a year. Now I realize being concerned about the classification system, people's perceptions of my worth, etc. had spoiled my fun and was inhibiting personal growth. Letting others devalue my accomplishments just because they can't shoot the scores, or have an axe to grind with the system ain't my problem. What the hell, if I shoot like my hair is on fire from Box A and it puts a GM card in the mail so be it. If folks don't like it, they can saddle up and bring it to the range.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Ron Ankeny

[dirtypool40]

Again I am happy to find others out there who can relate.

At this point, I want to excel, but I will only have the hard work it took to get there as the accomplishment. Does that make any sense? It's a little like slowly losing weight / getting in shape (another area I should focus on ); when you finally get there, there's no touch down dance, but you can look back on the consistent effort and respect yourself for that.

I am done trying to "please" or "impress" friends and family with some paper accomplishments. Raz-O had it right...

USPSA is just like anything else that requires a developed skill. At some point, what you work on improving or perfecting is something that is only meaningful to other people who do it. At some point beyond that it's only going to be meaningful to you because that's the level you are at.

On the other hand, from Kubistant's book, I"ve come to accept that while I may be at 100% for me today, that does not mean I am limiting myself for what 100% of me in the future might be if I keep working.

I used to panic when I thought I had a near 100% (for then) performance and it still wasn't good enough. It's just showing you you had a good performace for what you knew right then. Relax, you can still improve OVER you're 100%, enjoy that you had a good match then. Enjoy that you performed well, whatever the level.

The one that is even harder to accept for me is when a less than 100% IS good enough. You know, you worked hard, and now you're a competitive M instead of a reallypolished "B". Somtimes you win in ugly fashion, at less than 100% execution of what you know. It's harder for me to swallow that than a close loss when I do perform well. The win is satisfying, but somehow dissapointing.

Man am I screwed up or what?

Edited April 28, 2006 by dirtypool40

[XRe]

Man am I screwed up or what?

No more so than most of us, my man

[cr10x]

Just for the purpose of looking at things from a slightly different standpoint, what about this.

Maybe the goal(s) are not exactly what they should be. Yea, I know some people think its just words and how you say them is not important. But goals, expectations and accomplishments and how we define them in our minds (and how we feel about them) can be really important to how far we can progress.

First thought; is making GM a goal or an outcome? How we look at goals has a real effect on how we deal with them. Is the GM card the goal, or is the goal something else related to individual performance?

To me the goals are the things I need to obtain to get the outcome I wish to achieved. So my goals do not include a classification but an average score increase, performance changes, level of participation, etc, which relate to the outcome I want.

This is something that I've noticed varies from individual to individual. Some people will never be successfuel with a goal of "beating so-and-so at some match", but will be very successfule with a goal of "X % center hits", "avg 0.X sec draws", etc. Other people cannot get the drive when faced with performance goals, but will flat out peform just to "beat" someone.

Anyway, just a thought to see if you might jumpstart a change by redefining your goals.

But, once you made a goal, don't devalue it. It was a goal (make note of the reasons and drivers when you make your goal) because it was important to you at that time. Remember the person that made that goal is not the same one that achieved that goal.

And isn't that the real reason for having goals anyway?

Ceco;

[dirtypool40]

Remember the person that made that goal is not the same one that achieved that goal.

And isn't that the real reason for having goals anyway?

Ceco;

That's a good way to look at it. Kinda like updating you self image, keeping everything balanced like Lanny says.

[Ron Ankeny]

First thought; is making GM a goal or an outcome?

At first, it was a goal. When the goal was in reach, I redefined my goals and a GM card became something I didn't even care about. Shortly thereafter, GM became something I really didn't even want because of all the negativity put on the achievement (through classifiers) by so many people in our sport.

I shoot a lot of club matches and as a result, I shoot about 20-30 classifiers a year. As long as I continue to improve (one goal that has never changed), a GM card is inevitable even if I flounder like a beached whale on every long course I encounter. For me, a GM card will happen because of the way the system works unless I back it off a notch at the buzzer, or stop shooting in those divisions where I am so close. I have done both and it's not a good feeling so screw it; I am just going to shoot.

[lynn jones]

dp,

not to devalue your goals...but didn't you get married last year? that can take away from any shooting goals. not to say marriage is a bad thing.

lynn

[XRe]

not to devalue your goals...but didn't you get married last year? that can take away from any shooting goals. not to say marriage is a bad thing.

Lynn, this is a good point, and highlights something that I think we all forget when we get wrapped up in our goals... It's extremely useful - especially when we're feeling tense, agitated, or discouraged about not meeting the goals we've laid out for ourselves - to go back and reevaluate them again. Both in retrospect, and for those that remain - especially any timelines that we've put around them.

We might find that we set the bar in an unattainable or unrealistic place for the timeframe we gave ourselves to get there. Or, events may have occurred in between that have rendered our goals obsolete in some way (ie, delaying them, or cancelling them altogether).

For instance - I've had a goal of finding a place where I can get some consistent livefire practice done. I've been pretty discouraged about it, cause I'm at a point where I really need to work some things with real ammo, and start tracking times, etc, and I can't seem to get it done. There's just not anything realistic in the Austin area - the solution for most folks, it seems, has been to buy a piece of land and build a private range, or they know someone with such a setup, or they don't livefire practice (at least, not IPSC skills). Frankly, the Austin area sucks for shooting our sport - we have a good club here, but the range we use is basically unavailable on the weekends, except when we shoot our matches - and it's too far out from me to make it there during the week, and also work. I've been refocusing my efforts on what I *can* do dryfire, and working on my physical fitness while I try to build some contacts and see if I can find a suitable place to get some practice done during the week. I haven't determined exactly what to do with this goal, yet, but... I'm working on that

[benos]

What is a good, competitive goal? Regardless of your skill level. It's "good" because it won't change, and it is attainable. Looking back on it, and without ever realizing it at the time, my goal was always to have an error-free performance that matched my capacity at that moment.

be

[Loves2Shoot]

Performing to my match potential has been my goal for this year. I know I won't acheive it often, but it's the only real goal that motivates me these days.

Shooting is a very personal experience for me. When I had goals of getting to somewhere it always felt very empty when I got there. I am trying to follow BE's advise of seeing something new with each shot as an everyday goal and having pretty amazing break throughs in my shooting and my motivation to keep at it and not just hang it up.

I started shooting IPSC as a D shooter know the work it takes to make the journey to GM card in your pocket. It took me a very long time because I had the totally wrong approach. I was trying to be something, ie. "A class" shooter, instead of becoming something, ie. a great shooter. I may never become a great shooter, but I'm now enjoying the process more than ever before. I have the desire to keep investing in the journey.

I used to like climbing mountains, and loved the summit hump, no matter how cruel it was, knowing a spectacular perspective would be my reward. Knowing relatively few others would ever stand in that spot had value to me at the time.

Shooting doesn't work that way for me. I still remember when I hit my first really fast draw, I was practicing a ton and I nailed some good draws, then it hit me, those were most likely the quickest draws I would ever do. It felt cool at first, quickly followed by a empty feeling in my gut. I guess at that moment I knew that in shooting I must learn to love the laborous steps up the hill, always knowing that I will never reach the summit.

I guess that's a long winded way of saying, if your goal isn't about what you do every time you break a shot, take a step, or anything else that is required in this sport, you might get that same empty feeling I did.

I still have that D class shooter inside me, he is part of me. If I forget him, I would be happy with good match finishes and finishing high on the list actually mean something real to me. I like to see where I come out, but I now use it to see where I can improve.

BTW- If you made M you have the skills to make GM, if you can hit .76 reloads and hit anything you have to added gifts to be GREAT.