Steel must fall to score?

[Dewberry]

This is partially a rules question and partially a strategy question. This past weekend in the 3 gun nation south west regional match, which was outstanding by the way, I shot a steel plate with bird shot and it turned a perfect 90 degrees and did not fall. I saw that it turned without falling and made the split second decision to not shoot at it because I have been told at local matches that a target like that is unsafe to engage. ( I assumed it had something to do with the heat treat being ruined on the edge when the steel is cut). Anyway, it was scored a ftn.

Would you have shot at it again? With birdshot or pistol?

Have you ever heard a target in this condition called unsafe?

If you were writing the rules would you change them to make this a neutralized target?

Thanks for the insight guys.

[MarkCO]

First, a target on a stand with an anti rotate strip fixes the problem. Seems it would be scored unhit, not FTN. With birdshot, yes shoot it again, there is no issue of safety. Hitting the edge is is no consequence to the target, but with pistol can create ricochet issues. In some rulesets it is range equipment failure and a reshoot, in others a miss.

What it should be is debatable and thus the differences in the rules. You did not put your pattern on the target, why should to get a redo... OR the target design and location are poor and you got some pattern on it, why should you be penalized. With shotgun, IMHO, move and reengage if possible, but shoot it again.

Would never call it neutralized though.

Edited October 15, 2014 by MarkCO

[AustinWolv]

Every match I can recall attending, steel had to fall. So yes, the shooter always shot it again, moving to do so if needed to get more squared up to the plate again.

[Dewberry]

Thank you for the reply, yes it was scored unhit. The target in question was about 10 yards out and my shooting position was set by 2 stacks of barrels, one on either side. I believe the steel was turned instead of falling because I was going fast and had a mod choke in the gun from a previous long steel array.

[Sterling White]

Program yourself to knock falling steel down. You may have to move to get better angle however its worth taking a little extra time instead of a penalty.

[kurtm]

Sterling is right! Knock it down, but it is a strange proclivity of our sport, two anywhere on a HUGE paper target is good, but a turned 4" plate is a miss...even though it took a lot more than just one small #7.5. shot pellet to do that. Never quite got my head around that, but those are the rules.

[Dewberry]

In hindsight If I had extra shells in the gun I should have reengaged, but it was the last shotgun array of the stage and I had no way of getting a better angle on it as the only shooting location for it was between a 2-3 ft gap between stacked 55 gal drums.

[MarkCO]

In hindsight If I had extra shells in the gun I should have reengaged, but it was the last shotgun array of the stage and I had no way of getting a better angle on it as the only shooting location for it was between a 2-3 ft gap between stacked 55 gal drums.

I have turned a few plates with shotgun...the penalty is the extra shot and then I aim at the base of the target in that case, and they went down on the 2nd shot every time.

[Dewberry]

In hindsight If I had extra shells in the gun I should have reengaged, but it was the last shotgun array of the stage and I had no way of getting a better angle on it as the only shooting location for it was between a 2-3 ft gap between stacked 55 gal drums.

I have turned a few plates with shotgun...the penalty is the extra shot and then I aim at the base of the target in that case, and they went down on the 2nd shot every time.

Thanks for the advice. When I go to the range this weekend I'm going to turn a couple on purpose and see how hard it is to knock then down. I'll definitely be aiming at the base now.

[Stlhead]

Shoot the stick!

[Alita]

Shoot the stick!

^ +1

[MarkCO]

Shoot the stick!

^ +1

Run a Bolo or Chainmail round in your OneShot to pick up turned plates and be the envy of all.

[Dewberry]

Maybe a bean bag round would knock it over without hurting it.

[Langenator]

I recommend a hand grenade. A well-placed flash-bang should be enough.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

I started shooting matches at CMMG's range where the Midwest 3-Gun matches were held....we always had the "steel must FALL" rule in place. At the Amateur match last year I was burned for a target that flipped up OFF the stand and landed upside down by it's base on the stand....the MD was called over by the excellent RO's I had, but I already knew what the answer would be.

I shoot every steel target with the expectation that it has to fall....and if I spin one with shotgun, I have to accept that I didn't get a good pattern on the plate, and shoot it again. Shooting the stand or base has always worked well for me in those scenarios.

[pmt]

If a plate must FALL to be scored, then it should FALL when hit. Allowing a plate to turn 90* without FALLING should be unacceptable in stage design. If you make the platform large enough it becomes like the old carnival game where you have to knock the milk bottles OFF the table to win - merely knocking them over isn't good enough.

[mike4045]

It happened to a shooter on Stage 1 at the regional. He was out of shells so he switched to pistol and shot it from pistol shooting area. It was brought up in our stage brief. I asked they said it was still visible from pistol area and could be engaged. Leaving it would be a penalty. At least at this match you were given the chance to shoot it from another spot.

Mike

[Dewberry]

It happened to me at the regional on stage 7. It was one of the last three targets only visible from the shooting position between the 2 barrels stacks at the end.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Dewberry

[D.Hayden]

I was watching a 3 Gun nation epsiode the other day.. steel did not seem to have to fall on the shootoff? or did i hear it wrong?

I think it was BJ, thought he'd hit it, but there was no mark.

[Jeff F]

At our local matches we say that steel must fall to be counted. Its part of the fun, bad hit, you pay the price. Everyone knows it and lives with the rules. As long as its the dame rules for everyone, whats the difference.

We also count all missed steel as 10 second penalty.