Thoughts on Starting Kids

[WeDefy]

My wife and I have been working with my 9 year old daughter and 5 year old son with their BB guns for about a year now, and have let them shoot .22s and centerfire rifles and pistols (with a lot of assistance). I trust my 9 year old enough now with her BB gun that she is allowed to use it as long as I am outside with her, but not directly watching her- she's got a good handle on firearm safety and know to only to shoot at her targets- and I'm never more than 50 yards away from her in case she every forgets (which hasn't happened).

One thing I've noticed is that applying all of the fundamentals was a bit overwhelming and putting a scope on their BB guns made things much easier for them. Teaching them proper eye relief was much easier than teaching them sight alignment- obviously they will learn it in the future, but it freed up a lot of time to focus on the other fundamentals and gave them the gratification of hitting the target.

So on to my question-

My daughter very interested in her mom and I's competitive shooting, and I think the time has come to get a .22 pistol and start bringing her to the range with me. At the moment, I'm pretty interested in a 22/45 or a .22 Glock conversion.

My concerns with the 22/45, is that the Lite model is the same weight as a Glock 19 and the others are a bit heavier. If I got a .22 conversion for one of my Glocks, she'd be dealing with the grip size.

I'm also considering putting an optic on either one, just to get around the whole sight alignment issue. I have a single shot .22 rifle that I'm going to start shooting with her using the iron sights- but I think for her introduction to pistol, it may be best to simplify it with an optic.

Does anyone have an insight?

Thanks

[ZackJones]

I'd go with a .22 of some sort over the Glock conversion. I'm the steel challenge MD at our club and for our junior program we provide Browning Buckmarks. I've put a cheap red dot on one of them and that's the gun the kids prefer to shoot most of the time. We do have them shoot with iron sights as well. It is tough to teach them about sight alignment but we work on it a little bit each practice session and over time you can see their progress. Check and see if you can find any USPSA steel challenge or NSSF rimfire challenge matches near you and check those out. That would be a great way to introduce her to competition.

[MarkCO]

I think you should put in the effort to tech them iron sights on the pistol. Both of my boys were shooting 22 rifles by 6 and Ruger pistols by 7. The Buckmark and 22/45 are both better options than a conversion in my opinion. The 22/45 Lite is actually a bit too light for new shooters and the standard helps smooth out the transitions. Given the choice, both of my boys chose the heaviest Ruger of the ones we have.

They were shooting Rimfire Challenge by 9. 223 rifles by 10. The older one stated on centerfire pistol at 11 and now shoots USPSA and 3Gun at 12.

I put red dots on their rifles, but the benefits of teaching irons on the pistol are very real. Draw her a picture of what the sight picture should look like and teach her a good stance and grip. Red dots help to instill poor technique in kids. They are at the beginning and teaching them correct is important.

Edited September 24, 2014 by MarkCO

[Bidah]

I vote for the 22/45, as the grip size is important IMHO. I also believe that you should teach her the irons, and here has been my experience. I have 2 boys (13 and 15) Boy #1 was taught irons from the start (both rifles and pistols). He transitioned well to competition, and picked up the scope on his 3Gun rifle quickly. Boy #2 started with a red dot on his .22 rifle. When he started with the pistol (iron sights), it has taken years to get the sight picture through his head. He gravitates to the red dot as the irons are too hard (in his mind).

[uncledoc]

I am in the process of starting my 12 year old niece shooting. I purchased a BuckMark, but it is too heavy for her in my opiniion, so I am looking for a Ruger SR22. For me, the mag release is too far forward and I expect that she will not be able to reach it; thus my SR22 search. I see that you guys recommend the 22/45...I may have to take her to a gun store to verify the feel/handling.

MarkCo, I concur with your iron sight comments.....a drawing should help her understand the concept.

[EkuJustice]

The big advantage to the dot is it is it allows them to concentrate more on the trigger pull than anything else. Instead of so I need to put the front sight centered in the rear sight even across the top and look at the front and not the target while trying to pull the trigger smooth vs having the red dot on target and just working on a smooth pull. The red dot also shows your flaws much better than an iron sighted gun does. If you have a poor grip, jerk the trigger etc you can see the dot move accordingly a lot easier than you can iron sights.

[obsessiveshooter]

I just bought an SR22 for my boys to shoot. They are 8 and 9. The grip is perfect for their little hands and the whole pistol is a lot like a very-scaled-down walther. The 3dot sights are easy to see and the only thing I wish was different is that the frame safety moves down into the safe position instead of up. I can't imagine letting my boys do anything competitive with pistols unless I were able to be right there with them standing over them, and even still not until they are a few years older. But still, I feel the SR22 was the pefect choice to get them familiar with what a "real" pistol is like and how to get a good sight picture.

BTW, the sr22 is a replacement for my first great idea, a heritage rough rider with a 6.5" barrel. It was a beautiful, fun little plinker that was so awful for the boys that they didn't want to shoot it.

[MarkCO]

I made a mistake with the boys "first" pistol too, a Mosquito...they hated it. We have a nice array of 22/45s now.

Last year my wife and two boys shot the Rimfire Challenge World match in Tulsa which is the first time any of them had ever fired a firearm unless under my direct supervision. It was their first major match of any kind and the boys were 9 and 11, my wife just a bit older. I was nervous about it, but since I was running the match, I could not really check on them frequently so it was a good learning experience for me. They did great and got compliments from their squadmates.

If you teach them right, they will be fine.

You start with safety of course. Then do sessions of 5 to 10 minutes starting with stance, then grip, then sight picture and trigger control last. Think of it as a pyramid where the fundamentals need constant reinforcement in order to build the next step. Also, learning how your kids learns is VERY important. Some are visual, some repeaters, etc.

Edited September 24, 2014 by MarkCO

[Dwight Stearns]

The first weekend in August my then 9 year old granddaughter asked to shoot For the first time. I started her off with my open class rimfire challenge rifle. It's a 4.4 lb ar 15 with a Taccom .22 upper. She took to it immediately. I half jokingly asked if she wanted to shoot the Iowa NSSF rimfire challenge mstch the following weekend. She answered with an immediate yes. She shot the match and finished 68th out of 100. She has since shot the Missouri NSSF match and will shoot the world match with me in 10 days. I had never worked with a blank slate before. She absorbed the information especially the safety aspects like a sponge. So teach them right and it will stay with them for a lifetime.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Dwight Stearns

[WeDefy]

Thanks for all the responses- it's looking like I need to keep my eyes open for a 22/45.

I agree that teaching them irons would be more comprehensive, but it would also be much more intensive. I may try letting her shoot irons for a bit and see how it goes.

[ZackJones]

When you start her off with the irons take her towards the back of the bay and just have her shoot into the berm. That will give her an opportunity to see how the sights lift and return and you can also watch her eyes to see if she blinks.

[uncledoc]

BTW, the sr22 is a replacement for my first great idea, a heritage rough rider with a 6.5" barrel. It was a beautiful, fun little plinker that was so awful for the boys that they didn't want to shoot it.

I LOVE my Rough Rider six gun.....

[Bidah]

I will add that I used (and still have) the Walther P22. I got it since it is small, light, and fit their hands. When they started shooting the local club pistol matches (non-sanctioned), they were each 9. They did excellent, followed safety rules, and had fun in the process. Our Walther has digested 10's of thousands of rounds and works great. I know others have not done so well. I believe that the SR-22 is a better choice, today, than the Walther. If the 22/45 is too heavy, it would be a good option. I left this information out originally since it was not what was being asked (22/45 or Glock Conversion).

[uncledoc]

When you start her off with the irons take her towards the back of the bay and just have her shoot into the berm. That will give her an opportunity to see how the sights lift and return and you can also watch her eyes to see if she blinks.

Great idea.....thanks!

[BaggerJoe]

Another vote for teaching iron sights. My boys (twins) were 7 when I got them Red Rider bb guns and 10 when I got them 10/22's. I told them not to even consider a scope or other optic until they could shoot iron sights. They are 12 now and in the process of building AR's. (This summer I found 2 lowers with consecutive serial numbers and bought them.) I think it's just as important that kids know the 'hows' and 'whys' of shooting as it is sight picture and trigger control. I'm referring to parts nomenclature and function. (What actually happens when you pull the trigger.) I also agree with taking her to a gun shop and letting her hold some guns and see what is comfortable.

[WeDefy]

When you start her off with the irons take her towards the back of the bay and just have her shoot into the berm. That will give her an opportunity to see how the sights lift and return and you can also watch her eyes to see if she blinks.

I'm not so worried about blinking as I am teaching sight alignment, by the time the gun goes off and you blink the bullet is already headed to the target. Blinking may effect follow up shots, but not the one that caused it.

I'm pretty much convinced that teaching the fundamentals minus sight alignment, then adding it later after trigger control, grip, and sight picture are under control is a recipe for success. Minimizing variables and attacking them one at a time ls always better- if it wasn't, we would just give kids guns and tell them to shoot field courses until they were masters.

Edited September 25, 2014 by WeDefy

[b1gcountry]

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for all the posts

[nitrohuck]

and if anyone needs another 22/45 give me a shout! Got one that I was gonna part with.

They really are awesome trainers,

[WeDefy]

The 22/45 Lite is actually a bit too light for new shooters and the standard helps smooth out the transitions. Given the choice, both of my boys chose the heaviest Ruger of the ones we have.

Is that because of recoil? Does your Lite have a comp?

Thanks

[MarkCO]

Not because of recoil. Have tried with and without a comp. Just more twitchy. They tend to overdrive it and throw misses. The extra weight just smoother on the transitions. My 12 year old shoots under 2 seconds with the standard a 5" bull barrel Ruger. Can't get a clean run with my Lite unless he slows down. Getting kid to pivot at the waist instead of the shoulders is a large part we are working on now. When he gets that down, we will try the Lite again.

[slee]

I have 3 kids 15, 13, and 10. All know how to use irons, but haven't necessarily "mastered" them. In my opinion, the only thing they need to master (with our help) is safety. My oldest competes with both, but prefers open. My middle learned how to use irons, but lost interest pretty quick until she shot one of big brothers rimfire open guns. Now she competes. My youngest understands how to use irons, but really didn't even show any interest until she shot with a dot. And now she also competes. My point is, none of my kids are "forced" to shoot. Now, they may have had to learn gun safety against their will initially, but they all shoot now because it's fun. The fact is, they are getting trigger time because they want to. We can always go back later and work on irons, but for now they're getting experience with trigger control, grip, stance, transitions, and competition.

Depending on the size and strength of your kids, we found the 22/45 LITE to be a great gun. Simply because they can hold it up! It does hop a little because it's so light, but if you do decide to go OPen, you can put a comp on it.

[Dwight Stearns]

Don't be afraid to start young shooters with optics such as red dot sights. Young shooters will experience success much quicker with optics than they will iron sights. Optics helps the young shooter to see some of their errors in technique such as trigger press, follow through and yes blinking. This allows them to work to correct those errors. I say yes to blinking because blinking does affect the shot being fired as well as the following shot. I have no problem with starting young shooters with iron sights but there is also nothing wrong with starting with optics either.