DocMedic Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) This was never about uspsa rule set. This was about defining a start position. Define low ready and port arms start positions. And I belive that a lot more 3 gun matches are using a modified 3 gun nation rule set than a uspsa rule set. In this case there is no low ready or port arms "starting postion". 12.3 Are You Ready - Standby ...The range officer shall then issue the commands "Are You Ready" followed shortly by "Standby". At this point the competitor is cleared to activate the "3GN Self Start Timer Button" which activates the timer that signifies the beginning of the competitors attempt of the course of fire... Edited September 16, 2014 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsydlooknin75 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 This was never about uspsa rule set. This was about defining a start position. Define low ready and port arms start positions. And I belive that a lot more 3 gun matches are using a modified 3 gun nation rule set than a uspsa rule set. In this case there is no low ready or port arms "starting postion". 12.3 Are You Ready - Standby ...The range officer shall then issue the commands "Are You Ready" followed shortly by "Standby". At this point the competitor is cleared to activate the "3GN Self Start Timer Button" which activates the timer that signifies the beginning of the competitors attempt of the course of fire... 2.6 Default Start Position. The competitor assumes the start position as specified in the written stage briefing. Unless otherwise specified, for a handgun start, the competitor must stand erect, facing downrange, with arms hanging naturally by the sides. For a rifle or shotgun start, unless otherwise specified, the competitor must stand "High Port" which is defined as; standing erect and relaxed, with the firearm held in both hands, stock touching the competitor's belt, at hip level, muzzle pointing upward and with the finger out of the trigger guard. Different stages may require the “ready position” to be prone, kneeling, sitting or as otherwise stated in the written stage briefing. A course of fire may permit a competitor to start a stage with a long gun mounted into the shoulder and pointing towards targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Proves my point, basically copied from the USPSA ruleset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 And this is where the discussion becomes pointless and I tune out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Man! If only every RO at a major match would be a USPSA certified RO we would all be a lot better off. Best class I have taken in regards to the shooting sports! Even though we don't always follow USPSA rules we sure like to fall back on them when the outlaw rule book leaves us hanging. Heck I would be happy to get rid of the wasted time asking me is I understand the course of fire and that I should be nodding my head to start the stage. Edited September 16, 2014 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) This was never about uspsa rule set. This was about defining a start position. Define low ready and port arms start positions. And I belive that a lot more 3 gun matches are using a modified 3 gun nation rule set than a uspsa rule set. In this case there is no low ready or port arms "starting postion". 12.3 Are You Ready - Standby ...The range officer shall then issue the commands "Are You Ready" followed shortly by "Standby". At this point the competitor is cleared to activate the "3GN Self Start Timer Button" which activates the timer that signifies the beginning of the competitors attempt of the course of fire... 2.6 Default Start Position. The competitor assumes the start position as specified in the written stage briefing. Unless otherwise specified, for a handgun start, the competitor must stand erect, facing downrange, with arms hanging naturally by the sides. For a rifle or shotgun start, unless otherwise specified, the competitor must stand "High Port" which is defined as; standing erect and relaxed, with the firearm held in both hands, stock touching the competitor's belt, at hip level, muzzle pointing upward and with the finger out of the trigger guard. Different stages may require the “ready position” to be prone, kneeling, sitting or as otherwise stated in the written stage briefing. A course of fire may permit a competitor to start a stage with a long gun mounted into the shoulder and pointing towards targets That seems pretty defined to me. EDIT: Curious, where is 2.6 from? its not 3Gun nation handbook. (nvm Its under the Regional handbook rule set.) Edited September 16, 2014 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Easy solution to this issue- maximum capacity of 8+1 rounds in the shotgun for divisions other than open. And before anyone accusses me of being a Communist, we already limit non-open handguns to 140mm magazines (assumingly due to a practical nature). Edited September 16, 2014 by Bryan 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 And while we are add it I say we effectively limit rifle mags to 30. Bryan may or may not be a commie, his idea is still sound. Port arms is for parades, how hard is it to think of a better start position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I actually like 8+1 for shotgun and 30 round limits for rifle mags, wish it had never changed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I actually like 8+1 for shotgun and 30 round limits for rifle mags, wish it had never changed... Hell lets do that, and lets make it so pistol mags must be flush fitting or limit them to 15 rounds, create a new division and call it Production Edited September 16, 2014 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I actually like 8+1 for shotgun and 30 round limits for rifle mags, wish it had never changed... +1 I would be OK with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I actually like 8+1 for shotgun and 30 round limits for rifle mags, wish it had never changed... +1 I would be OK with that too. hell yea!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I actually like 8+1 for shotgun and 30 round limits for rifle mags, wish it had never changed... Hell lets do that, and lets make it so pistol mags must be flush fitting or limit them to 15 rounds, create a new division and call it Production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 All this talk of mag capacity limits is un-American. Please stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 "Create a new division and call it production"?????? I think it ought to be called Re-enactor's division........on the seventh day the Beta corporation created the C mag and they saw that it was good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Poo Poo on any new divisions, we have enough already, let's just keep messing with the ones we got until they are all about the same, then we can just go back to one, then add limited, and start the whole thing all over again! The circle of life YO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Poo Poo on any new divisions, we have enough already, let's just keep messing with the ones we got until they are all about the same, then we can just go back to one, then add limited, and start the whole thing all over again! The circle of life YO! How about we remove the caliber restriction in the Heavy divisions keep the round limit the same, rename it to production? To give the old school heavy shooters a break, we allow .308 / .45 shooters the advantage of 1 A or C neutralization. I bet we see a growth in that division by at least 500%!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 .22 is about half of .45 in diameter, but in volume it is 1/4. Maybe 4 hits for .22 caliber, 3 hits for .30 caliber, 2 hits for .35 caliber and 1 hit for .40 caliber and above. Yeah, that's the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Can we use paper targets with heads and shoulders instead of pizza boxes too? Cause if so, I'm in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Schmitt Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I too have had problems with consistent starts. Our solution was to implement 1 start position for shotguns and rifles. That being low ready, pointed at the designated marker. This has removed a good deal of asking what to do by the shooter. We use a orange cones or a spray painted spot. I agree that port arms is for parades. Port arms by by its definition points the muzzle over the berm thus creating a possible safety issue that does not need to occure. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I agree with J. about low ready being a more safe start position, but...according to Websters Definition of PORT ARMS: a position in the manual of arms in which the rifle is held diagonally in front of the body with the muzzle pointing upward to the left; also : I could not find Low Ready in Websters...possibly because it's a more recent addition to terminology and it's a phrase,not a word, but according to everycitizen.org Low Ready: This is the fastest and most commonly seen ready position, especially in CQB and competitive situations. Ideally the weapon should be just low enough for you to see over the sights. It is more difficult to use your support hand for other tasks while in the low ready vs other ready positions. This description was for pistol, but said it was used for long guns as well. For what it's worth, not much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 If you are worried about it as a stage designer, match director, or range master........make your stages start with the shooters hands on something and the rifle/shotgun staged flat on a table and pistol holstered.....I mean, how many staging tables could possibly be shot that way? Brian? I can't say much.....I've shot a table or two myself. All this commie talk about sissifying of mag capacities is communist. I personally have no issues with 170mm or longer mags being used in TacOps and Limited, with 140mm mags I usually don't change mags in 3-gun anyways. Same goes for rifle and when I shot with 30rd mags. If you're overly worried about it....outline EXACTLY what you want in the stage description. "Low Ready" could easily be replaced with "muzzle aimed at X on ground with long gun shouldered in ready to fire position." Of course....making me point at the X on the ground with the sights oriented up will only penalize me 1/4 second if I'm loading my shotgun off the buzzer anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmt Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 All this talk of mag capacity limits is un-American. Please stop! Exactly! I moved 2500 miles to get away from a place that had mag capacity limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 No one is advocating mag capacity limits, just max loaded rounds that are appropriate for the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) I say pooooooooooooooooooooh.....I want to be able to shoot this in a match! And I will use it in Limited against mi amigo's senior Milller and Stlhead! http://loadoutroom.com/11137/500-round-iron-man-backpack/ Edited September 20, 2014 by Sterling White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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