TheBrick Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I finally received my backorder of 38 short colt brass and tried to load some test rounds. I am using a 38/357 carbide size die in Dillon 550 press. 9mm powder funnel/flare 9mm seat die and 9mm crimp. After loading a few test rounds with no powder/primer I noticed that the 142 Montana Gold .357 dia bullets left a significant bulge in the exterior of the case causing it not to fit in the case gauge. I test loaded some moly BBI .356 and they bulge but to a much lesser degree and will fit the case gauge. .355 bullets just fall through the cylinder forcing cone and would not be accurate. I have cut down 38 spl. Federal brass (.900) and successfully loaded the 142 MG to a nice accurate load. Any ideas, comments or suggestions on how to eliminate the 142 bulge in a 38 SC case would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 What is your OAL? You probably need to seat the bullet out farther, like around 1.140 ish-1.160ish... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) With 358 160 grain bullets I can't load any shorter than 1.170" or I see issues. WIth 357 147 bullets I'm able to go down to 1.150" without issues. With 355 & 356 125 bullets I'm down to as low as 1.120 without issues, but usually stay above 1.130. Also you can put a heavy taper crimp on them but you can still go too far with jacketed bullets and that can cause a buckling of the case. I measured the case walls and at about .250 from the case mouth the side walls start to get thicker. If I remember correctly it goes from about .010 to .012 close to that point. And then increases from there down. With the 358 160 I went as long at 1.200 and never saw any bullet pull either. So I try to keep the base of the bullet at .250 or less from the case mouth. Seems to have plenty of grip still. Edited July 15, 2014 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrick Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 I was seating the bullet in the cannelure so the oal was 1.080 I will try the longer oal tomorrow. Hope that works. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I was seating the bullet in the cannelure so the oal was 1.080 I will try the longer oal tomorrow. Hope that works. Thanks Yes that's way too deep. The cannelure just can't be used on that, or any that I know of, bullets in the 38 short colt. One reason why most are using a Taper Crimp. I'd try 1.150 for that bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryYu Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Could someone please upload a photo of what a loaded 38SC round should look like if you're using a 147 RNFP or a 160 RN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I load 142-gr. MGs at 1.140" in short colt brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Oh wait that's not quite right... Left: Short Colt loaded with 160gr RN IbejiHeads OAL: 1.190 inches. Right is 38 Special with 158gr RN Speer OAL: 1.480 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Oh wait that's not quite right... Left: Short Colt loaded with 160gr RN IbejiHeads OAL: 1.190 inches. Right is 38 Special with 158gr RN Speer OAL: 1.480 The top photo, this is the only round I've ever loaded that I have had that same issue. What sizing die are you using? My loads seem to always leave a "ring" around the base about .200" up from the rim. I've tried several different dies and have the same issue with them in my 550. Don't hurt anything but they just don't look as nice as yours. I've also seen that ring on my other 357's using both Magnum and Special brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 What sizing die are you using? My loads seem to always leave a "ring" around the base about .200" up from the rim. Try a Lee sizing die. They do a better job of sizing the case down near the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The top photo, this is the only round I've ever loaded that I have had that same issue. What sizing die are you using? My loads seem to always leave a "ring" around the base about .200" up from the rim. I've tried several different dies and have the same issue with them in my 550. Don't hurt anything but they just don't look as nice as yours. I've also seen that ring on my other 357's using both Magnum and Special brass. The top one was made when I was not using enough flare in the case. I moved the powder funnel/flare down just a bit more and bullets falling over on the up stroke happens very rarely now. My setup is on a Dillon 650 XL. I am using all standard Dillon 38/357 shell plate and sizing die in position one, 9mm powder funnel/flare, 9mm seating die and 9mm taper crimp die. The crimp die probably does not even get down to the actual crimp portion of the die since 9mm is a tapper case and the mouth is smaller than 38 Short Colt it seem to just use that long tapper to remove the flare. I have only one or two thousands crimp on my loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter22 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 .38 Short Colt, Starline brass, Montana Gold 142 gr; photo at: http://www.stillwaterfirearms.org/index.php/sfa-photos/j-l-rhodes/miscellaneous/38-short-colt-moonclip-1-3051#joomimg OAL is ~ 1.082". Can see a slight case bulge ring at the base of the seated bullet. But it is not a problem; this ammo chambers and performs just fine. Although the bullet has a cannelure, these bullets are taper crimped; the cannelure is just above the case mouth. Again, no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter22 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) I've not been able to cut/paste text data, include an image, nor use quote/multi quote function in these BE forums. No problem with other website forums. Anyone know why? Edited July 16, 2014 by varminter22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter22 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 .38 Short Colt, Starline brass. Xtreme 147 gr (on right); OAL ~ 1.139". This too has a slight case bulge at the base of seated bullet. But again, no problem; performs fine. http://www.stillwaterfirearms.org/index.php/sfa-photos/j-l-rhodes/miscellaneous/short-colts-1-3052#joomimg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I've been shooting Xtreme 147s at 1.115-1.120 without any bulging issues. When I tried the MGs, Carmoney's number was as low as I could go without a bulge, 1.140. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granderojo Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The "Bulge" that you're seeing is the part of the case, that's been under sized, resized to the Dia. of the bullet. The remainder of the case below "The Bulge" should be the same Dia. As has been said here, "Won't hurt nothing". Bullet on it's side, Fell over on the way up to be seated, would be my guess. I've seen this first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrick Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thanks everyone, The oal was the problem. I went as low as 1.140 as Mike said but that seemed to be the very deepest without a problem. I decided to go out to 1.155 with a taper crimp which looks like a good compromise with only a slight visual ring at the bullet base. Fits the case gauge easily. Now to get busy working up a load with Clays. Thanks again for all the good info. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 What sizing die are you using? My loads seem to always leave a "ring" around the base about .200" up from the rim. Try a Lee sizing die. They do a better job of sizing the case down near the rim. Have Dillon, Hornady (std) and Lee all do the same. Doesn't cause any issues just looks funky. The issue is sizing the case down to minimum specs, but can't get it flush and probably never would. Guess I could try not sizing as far down, might do that just to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelie Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Its the taper of the case wall that causes what you are seeing. If it fits in the gun it is merely cosmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 What sizing die are you using? My loads seem to always leave a "ring" around the base about .200" up from the rim. Try a Lee sizing die. They do a better job of sizing the case down near the rim. Have Dillon, Hornady (std) and Lee all do the same. Doesn't cause any issues just looks funky. The issue is sizing the case down to minimum specs, but can't get it flush and probably never would. Guess I could try not sizing as far down, might do that just to see. Next step is to use a Lee "U" (undersize) sizing die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 What sizing die are you using? My loads seem to always leave a "ring" around the base about .200" up from the rim. Try a Lee sizing die. They do a better job of sizing the case down near the rim. Have Dillon, Hornady (std) and Lee all do the same. Doesn't cause any issues just looks funky. The issue is sizing the case down to minimum specs, but can't get it flush and probably never would. Guess I could try not sizing as far down, might do that just to see. Next step is to use a Lee "U" (undersize) sizing die. Or increase the cylinder chamfers ! I'm not worried about it, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 What sizing die are you using? My loads seem to always leave a "ring" around the base about .200" up from the rim. Try a Lee sizing die. They do a better job of sizing the case down near the rim. Have Dillon, Hornady (std) and Lee all do the same. Doesn't cause any issues just looks funky. The issue is sizing the case down to minimum specs, but can't get it flush and probably never would. Guess I could try not sizing as far down, might do that just to see. Next step is to use a Lee "U" (undersize) sizing die. Or increase the cylinder chamfers ! I'm not worried about it, just curious. Cylinder chamfer doesn't extend far enough into the chamber unless they're HUGE. I used a Lee "U" die to "de-Glock" .45 acp brass for use in my 625. The "U" sizing die functions kinda like a small base rifle die. Very usefull when you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Commander Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Here is 160 LRN @ 1.150. Notice the crimp groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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