What do you do when an RO in your opinion is taking too long to do thi

[Sandbagger123]

I have RO many times with different people. The vast majority try to run the squad efficiently. A few times I have gotten paired to a person that takes too long to do things. Many times they are yacking with friends or just don't have a plan on how to score. It just seems to make a long day longer.

So in these situations, is there any tip or suggestion on what to do or say without stepping on people's toes?

[Sarge]

Without stepping on toes? probably not. Tell the MD. If he is on his game he will tell them to snap it up. I MD locally and I have a great guy who loves to help and is certified but he likes to have a little too much fun sometimes and takes a little long to run a squad through a stage. I just talked to him and we kind of worked things out. He joked with me this weekend every time I saw him, "going as fast as we can sarge"! It's hard to get guys as good as him to step up so I certainly didn't want to run him off. Diplomacy worked well this time.

[chaosshooter00]

Step up and RO, we're all volunteers and unless someone else steps up, you get what you got. I like to run a tight squad with reliable score keeper and the monster of a man to make sure taping and setting is getting done. I have run with RO's there to have fun and kick back and have taken the clock so they could do so. I almost always take the clock at other people's ranges so the locals can take a break, if they're like me, they had to set up and will eventually tear down, so I like them to shoot as relaxed as possible. It's a local match and supposed to be safe and fun. My .02

[CHA-LEE]

I have found that leading by example is the best approach to promoting better or more efficient RO skills. That and the RO's ability to accept constructive criticism when something fails is a must. If you have an RO that is so dug into their ways that they get offended or defensive about receiving valid constructive criticism then its time to tell them to stop ROing.

[whitedog]

Going as fast as we can Sarge. ?

Thanks.

[Sarge]

Going as fast as we can Sarge.

Thanks.

Good job this weekend.

[whitedog]

Maybe bing an RO. I could not hit a barn if I was in it. Totally sucked....but had a good time.

Can I RO in a Viking helmet next month?

[Sarge]

Maybe bing an RO. I could not hit a barn if I was in it. Totally sucked....but had a good time.

Can I RO in a Viking helmet next month?

OH I SEE. ROing so much is what makes you suck at shooting!

I suck too. I admit I don't dry fire a lot but since becoming MD I have noticed my progress has slowed somewhat. That's probably just the cost of doing business.

[chaosshooter00]

Sarge, I'm going to have to go with whitedog on this one. Whenever I RO at my local match (every month), I don't feel competitive anymore, just feels like practice. When I visit other ranges, two or three times a month, my scores are 10% better across the board and I have a lot more fun. Not to be taken out of context, I have a lot of fun at home matches as well, I just can't put as much focus on the shooting when I'm "working".

[lcs]

Sarge, I'm going to have to go with whitedog on this one. Whenever I RO at my local match (every month), I don't feel competitive anymore, just feels like practice. When I visit other ranges, two or three times a month, my scores are 10% better across the board and I have a lot more fun. Not to be taken out of context, I have a lot of fun at home matches as well, I just can't put as much focus on the shooting when I'm "working".

I definitely agree. Whenever I RO a squad--my focus completely shifts and my stage performance reflects my lack of focus on shooting.

[CHA-LEE]

Sarge, I'm going to have to go with whitedog on this one. Whenever I RO at my local match (every month), I don't feel competitive anymore, just feels like practice. When I visit other ranges, two or three times a month, my scores are 10% better across the board and I have a lot more fun. Not to be taken out of context, I have a lot of fun at home matches as well, I just can't put as much focus on the shooting when I'm "working".

I am not sure how you guys handle the ROing task locally, but if you are shooting and ROing the match you need to give yourself enough time off from ROing before shooting the stage so it does not negatively impact your shooting performance. Doing some additional stage planning and programing in the morning of the match before it starts also helps a bunch.

I tend to get pulled into ROing a LOT at most of the local club matches I shoot. It used to negatively impact my match performance because I wasn't handing off the RO duties soon enough, or I wasnt giving myself enough time to figure out the stages before the match. I switched up my process to check out and break down every single stage long enough in the morning to have at least an 80% solid stage plan. Then during the match while I am ROing once I am in the "Deep Hole" in the shooting order I will pass off the RO duties to another shooter on the squad. That gives me enough time to solidify my stage plan, get my head into the game, then execute my stage run properly. If I am forced into a situation where I have to RO all the way up until my turn to shoot, I will ask to be moved down in the shooting order until another RO capable shooter can take over. Or if I am the last shooter I will ask for a little extra time before starting my stage run to mentally get into the game. I am yet to have any of my squad mates complain about this because they understand that everyone needs the proper amount of time to perform effectively.

So basically, if ROing negatively impacts your match performance, it is usually due to a failure on your part in some way or another.

[chaosshooter00]

Sarge, I'm going to have to go with whitedog on this one. Whenever I RO at my local match (every month), I don't feel competitive anymore, just feels like practice. When I visit other ranges, two or three times a month, my scores are 10% better across the board and I have a lot more fun. Not to be taken out of context, I have a lot of fun at home matches as well, I just can't put as much focus on the shooting when I'm "working".

I am not sure how you guys handle the ROing task locally, but if you are shooting and ROing the match you need to give yourself enough time off from ROing before shooting the stage so it does not negatively impact your shooting performance. Doing some additional stage planning and programing in the morning of the match before it starts also helps a bunch.

I tend to get pulled into ROing a LOT at most of the local club matches I shoot. It used to negatively impact my match performance because I wasn't handing off the RO duties soon enough, or I wasnt giving myself enough time to figure out the stages before the match. I switched up my process to check out and break down every single stage long enough in the morning to have at least an 80% solid stage plan. Then during the match while I am ROing once I am in the "Deep Hole" in the shooting order I will pass off the RO duties to another shooter on the squad. That gives me enough time to solidify my stage plan, get my head into the game, then execute my stage run properly. If I am forced into a situation where I have to RO all the way up until my turn to shoot, I will ask to be moved down in the shooting order until another RO capable shooter can take over. Or if I am the last shooter I will ask for a little extra time before starting my stage run to mentally get into the game. I am yet to have any of my squad mates complain about this because they understand that everyone needs the proper amount of time to perform effectively.

So basically, if ROing negatively impacts your match performance, it is usually due to a failure on your part in some way or another.

It would be great if it worked that way. Here in AZ on the CA border we have a lot of "older" shooters that moved here to retire and it is difficult to get past some of their handicaps in order to have working squads. I would rather have them shoot and have a good time, with my shooting taking a back seat, than make them responsible for things beyond their comfort zone. Last match had a squad of eleven and 5 were able bodied enough to tape and set. It is not uncommon to RO a shooter, tape and set, while I'm on deck. Occasionally, when it's like 110 degrees I get a little frosty, but I have to remember that even though they can't do everything anymore, them being there is what keeps my club going. I'll never win the prize '79 Pinto for a local match anyway.

[Sarge]

I'll never win the prize '79 Pinto for a local match anyway.

DAMN! you guys give away nice stuff! We aren't quite there yet! lol

Edited June 24, 2014 by Sarge

[chaosshooter00]

DAMN! You guys have a 79 as a prize? We aren't quite there yet. lol

:roflol:

[thermobollocks]

I've found generally there are ways of asking for what you want in ways that are more likely to get what you want. This is a life skill way above and beyond a shooting skill. For example, if an RO is distracted by conversation while the range is ready to roll, "hey this guy looks like he wants to shoot" is a better way to prompt the RO (especially one who you don't know their sense of humor) to focus than "hey old man let's get it moving."

Same deal for scorekeeping. If I am coming up in the shooting order, need to hit the can, etc., the best method I've found is to see if there's anyone who has already shot and knows how to run the scoring device. Failing that, instead of just passing the thing off on some dude, it's far more productive to walk the person through a round of scoring. That way, that person then gets on my mental list of people who know how to score.

Sometimes the carrot does not work and you must turn to the stick. But, that's definitely a last resort. You can remind people that everyone gets done sooner if enough people tape and brass, and sometimes you have to remind people more than once. If a squad at 3-gun is just too distracted and I need someone to run paper, I will call out "which one of y'all's literate?" while holding up the clipboard. You can't really say no to that.

[CHA-LEE]

"Old Dudes" can try to leverage the "I am too old to do the work" ploy, but most of the time its a bunch of bullshit. If they are able bodied enough to run around and shoot a field course stage, then they can work just like the rest of us. Sure some may have some valid physical limitations, but it does NOT take much physical effort to run the clock or do the scoring. I have heard every single excuse in the book as to why a shooter can't RO, Brass, Tape, set steel or whatever. 99% of the time the excuse is bullshit simply because they don't want to do it and if you call them out on it they snap into shape. Sure, if you have a guy with a blown out back, he shouldn't be the one resetting steel or bending over to brass, but he sure as hell can tape targets, run a clock or write down a score.

We have several 70 - 80+ year old shooters who actively participate in local matches here in Colorado. They all bust their hump doing what they can to help the squad churn through the stages just like everyone else. Sure they may take a seat once in a while to rest during the match, but when the "work" needs to be done, they are working. Its all part of the game.

If you promote a situation where you cater to the lazy asses, then you will have a match full of lazy asses. These matches happen way more effectively with the dedicated volunteerism provided by everyone. Not saddling all of the work on a few shooters.

[whitedog]

Um...I wish I can say it was due to being an RO. I just spontaneously crap out sometimes.

No....wait! That's it! I could be a GM if I did not RO! Yup...really. ?

And edited to add....so, yes on the Viking helmet? Please? ?

Edited June 24, 2014 by whitedog

[EkuJustice]

We were behind a squad recently at an out of state match that we had to wait on FOREVER for the whole match. The reason for the slow down was mentioned and basically got shrugged off. The match director was notified who will be talking to the ROs about that. The slow down was poor stage management as you had the RO, Shooter, and Score pad guy walking the targets. One yes One shooter pasting targets, One shooter who stood in the shade all day and 5 range chickens picking up every single piece of brass they could on the entire stage. The farther through the match we got the slower they became as there was simply more brass left behind by the other squads to pick up. Simple stage management on the ROs part would have solved that issue

[CHA-LEE]

If my squad gets log jammed behind another during a match I will pitch in and help the delayed squad get through the stage faster so my squad can get to it sooner. While helping out I will also assess the situation and start calling out the dead beats on the delinquent squad asking them why I have to do their work for them. Some times there is a valid reason why they are delayed and in those cases I don't look for or call out dead beats. But most of the time you have to lay down the law to snap the dead beats into shape. This may not be the most politically correct way of handling the situation, but it at least gets the delinquent squad through the stage faster and gives the dead beats a much needed "WTF!!! GET TO WORK!!!".

[ktm300]

Then during the match while I am ROing once I am in the "Deep Hole" in the shooting order I will pass off the RO duties to another shooter on the squad.

This is how we work it at a local match we shoot twice a month. Pretty much 50% same squad every week. We all take turns and when your Deep you get to focus on shooting. It works out well.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ktm300

[thermobollocks]

A bit of effort on the scorekeepers' part can also keep people who can keep score/RO from getting bunched up too badly.

[AJE]

I've never heard the term "range chicken" before. Lol!

[chaosshooter00]

I've never heard the term "range chicken" before. Lol!

[motosapiens]

Sarge, I'm going to have to go with whitedog on this one. Whenever I RO at my local match (every month), I don't feel competitive anymore, just feels like practice. When I visit other ranges, two or three times a month, my scores are 10% better across the board and I have a lot more fun. Not to be taken out of context, I have a lot of fun at home matches as well, I just can't put as much focus on the shooting when I'm "working".

I am not sure how you guys handle the ROing task locally, but if you are shooting and ROing the match you need to give yourself enough time off from ROing before shooting the stage so it does not negatively impact your shooting performance. Doing some additional stage planning and programing in the morning of the match before it starts also helps a bunch.

I tend to get pulled into ROing a LOT at most of the local club matches I shoot. It used to negatively impact my match performance because I wasn't handing off the RO duties soon enough, or I wasnt giving myself enough time to figure out the stages before the match. I switched up my process to check out and break down every single stage long enough in the morning to have at least an 80% solid stage plan. Then during the match while I am ROing once I am in the "Deep Hole" in the shooting order I will pass off the RO duties to another shooter on the squad. That gives me enough time to solidify my stage plan, get my head into the game, then execute my stage run properly. If I am forced into a situation where I have to RO all the way up until my turn to shoot, I will ask to be moved down in the shooting order until another RO capable shooter can take over. Or if I am the last shooter I will ask for a little extra time before starting my stage run to mentally get into the game. I am yet to have any of my squad mates complain about this because they understand that everyone needs the proper amount of time to perform effectively.

So basically, if ROing negatively impacts your match performance, it is usually due to a failure on your part in some way or another.

It would be great if it worked that way. Here in AZ on the CA border we have a lot of "older" shooters that moved here to retire and it is difficult to get past some of their handicaps in order to have working squads. I would rather have them shoot and have a good time, with my shooting taking a back seat, than make them responsible for things beyond their comfort zone. Last match had a squad of eleven and 5 were able bodied enough to tape and set. It is not uncommon to RO a shooter, tape and set, while I'm on deck. Occasionally, when it's like 110 degrees I get a little frosty, but I have to remember that even though they can't do everything anymore, them being there is what keeps my club going. I'll never win the prize '79 Pinto for a local match anyway.

I hope that when I get old, I don't get useless. I regularly shoot with a pair of older gentlemen (mid 80's and 70 or so) and they are taping and picking up brass all day long (and giving the brass back to the shooter, not stealin it). If someone on the squad's not working, we mock them until they work. If they *still* don't work, we sick Travis G on them. If you're able-bodied enough to shoot, and you're not recovering from major surgery, you're able-bodied enough to tape and set.

We also try to make sure there are at LEAST 2 RO's on every squad so everyone can concentrate on shooting.

Edited June 26, 2014 by motosapiens

[pskys2]

Sarge, I'm going to have to go with whitedog on this one. Whenever I RO at my local match (every month), I don't feel competitive anymore, just feels like practice. When I visit other ranges, two or three times a month, my scores are 10% better across the board and I have a lot more fun. Not to be taken out of context, I have a lot of fun at home matches as well, I just can't put as much focus on the shooting when I'm "working".

I definitely agree. Whenever I RO a squad--my focus completely shifts and my stage performance reflects my lack of focus on shooting.

It gets old, for sure. But I've started looking at RO'ing at a local match and then shooting the COF to be training for the stress and distractions of a larger match where I'm not running a timer or scoreboard and being ready for that "special" moment. I still take my time to get my plan down and prepare, but the distractions of RO'ing between then and shooting puts a bit of added stress that needs worked on. I've found that approaching it this way helps aleve the sting of not doing as well as I'd like. More importantly it has helped me become more steady and consistent at larger matches.

At local matches where I'm not known, I try not to jump in but will offer to help as much as they want.

But it's always more fun in a squad of like minded workers!

My hats are off to those rugged individuals who RO the bigger matches. I backed off of that roller coaster many years ago.