Holsters

[Kingman]

I guess I just don't understand the big deal about holsters, what if you carry ghetto style by tucking it in your wasteband with no holster. Since many people really carry that way would it be tactical.

WAY OFF TOPIC

Rhino, thats funnier than he77. The first IDPA match I shot I was drug along to, because they just wanted me to see it. I was just getting back into shooting and the only thing I had running was my open rig. Well guess what.

I took it. I am not allowed on that range at all now even with a iron sighted gun now. The concur that I shoot to fast to be safe. Oh well. So now I am switching to limited have a production rig but I won't ever go back.

BTW went a 2nd time just to show them a REAL IDPA shooter and Steve Monneypenny is not allowed back either. He shoots to fast to be safe.

ANOTHER THING

I can conceal my open gun and rig under my old jacket, now 3 sizes to big thanks to my 150+ pount weight loss. It does not show light by the belt. Would this be tactical. OH and its a Limcat.

[Muzzlebreak]

To whom it may concern;

Gregg @ Comp-tac is already modifying some of his designs to be sure to be in compliance with the new rules. I don't know what he's got ready to go so far but I did see examples of new mag pouches last night.

Gregg's a client of mine - I do his web work and we're meeting in the next few days to discuss product changes and possibly shoot photos of some of the new stuff. Again, I haven't been over to the shop since this bru-ha-ha started so I don't know what's ready to be released and what isn't, or if the new gear will replace the old gear or simply be added to the product list. That information, as soon as it's released, will be available on the website. (Personally, I'd rather the new stuff were added to the product line instead of replace the old because I don't wnat my magazines riding that deeply in the carriers - It's just plain stupid. I want to be able to get a good purchase on the magazine without anything in the way. Whether or not they hold the magazine securly is strictly a matter of the tensioning screw, not how deep the pouch is. I carry concealed every day of every week and these mag carriers have worked splendidly for years. But I digress.)

I can say that Comp-tac already has a belt holster design that should be available on the website in very short order. To all the Comp-tac customers, please keep checking the site. More information will be available there as it develops. I'm not an employee there so I don't have any advance information. I just know that the issues are being addressed.

-JM

[vincent]

--Mag pouches must cover 50% of the mag tube.

So a given model of magazine carrier may be legal for say a compact Glock 19 magazine, but illegal for a standard Glock 17 magazine???

---Holster may not position the breechface below the center of the belt.

So a given model holster will may be legal for a 1.75" belt and not legal for a 1.25" belt??? Some IWB holsters won't pass this test since they seat the gun too deep. I wonder how many folks have been checking thier holster and belt for this rule.

---No gap is permitted in the following areas: 2. From the outside of the belt to the inside of the backpiece and/or backside of the holster.

How will most Kydex holsters with belt channels or paddles pass this test? The plastic is rigid so it has to have some play to allow different thickness belts to go through. There will be some gap even if the channel is small. There needs to be some maximum allowable gap to allow for normal manufacturing tolerances.

[rhino]

What about Blade-Tech holsters with Tek-Loks? I foresee a problem!

Also, what's the problem with mag carriers that are canted? A forward cant when you wear them on the back side of your belt make them more concealable as well as making it possible to reach them for normal people. Oy.

I'm just going to have to get on the Miss Julie Goloski bandwagon and shoot Open Divison in USPSA from now on! Limcat here I come!

[BigDave]

How about getting some tactical black Silly Putty and jamming it into those unsightly places where light can pass?

/pounding my fist, crying, laughing my bloody arse off

That is the FUNNIEST thing I've read in a long damn time!!!

/pounding... OFF

[Flexmoney]

I'm just going to have to get on the Miss Julie Goloski bandwagon and shoot Open Divison in USPSA from now on! Limcat here I come!

I think she shoot an Open 9 Glock. (I got a rig you can borrow. )

[redmist10]

FWIW, the hunnicut vest isn't on the chopping block.  The comment on specially designed vests is oriented towards the cheater types who reinforce their pockets so they have essentially a bucket to drop their T.L.'s into.

Ted

Are you on the BoD or just that well informed?

So far, I've seen you reference Gamers and now Cheaters....up until January 5, 2005 many of those described were merely COMPETITIVE or partial to open pockets and vests that didn't snag.

So I suppose putting stuff in your vest to make the panels stiff makes you a cheater, gamer, or worse? Unbelievable!

I'm seriously questioning the staying power of this organization....FLEX, when is the next USPSA match??? February can't get here fast enough! <dialing phone number for STI, SVI, open guns, funny optics, colored grips, ported barrels, holsters with retention devices > It just seems easier...

The Dale H. vest is made for competition. I believe the name of the company is Competative concealment on the label. Would that not make the vest a competition only garment. They are way too ugly to wear out to a restraunt or grocery store.

Dave

HOWEVER, the big pockets are advantageous to carrying heads of lettuce and jugs of milk...that's what I plan to do with mine.

[Ted Murphy]

Are you on the BoD or just that well informed?

No. Neither. I can however, operate a telephone so I called HQ and asked. Probably a novel concept in the days of forums though. Jeez, I thought you people would feel better having some hard facts, and all I get is accused of being in on some kind of conspiracy. Geez.

I never said making panels stiff is bad. Personally, I don't give a RA what you do to your vests. Re-read my posts on the subject.

However= I did say that modifying a pocket is. Not that it's my rule, it's IDPA's. as per pp 34 of the book.

Ted

[redmist10]

I can however, operate a telephone so I called HQ and asked.

Ted

I can only operate equipment up to six digits.

Just wondering, Ted, you seem to have the pulse of HQ. Most folks complain they don't get any answers. It just seems like anything that is remotely considered "an edge" or practical in the sport - aka GAME- is immediately outlawed rather than trusting the ability of the good folks that volunteer to be SO's.

I go back to the posts that state an SO has the ability to gig someone if they are not following the spirit of the rules. If you have to ask someone twice - boot them out. I've seen it work (IE. the WV State Championships). They put the "infraction" on the score sheet at each stage, if they tallied the scores and found more than one you were out.

I thought this year's Nationals went smoother and with less competitor complaints than ever before. Sorry for yet another thread drift.

[chp5]

Just only allow IWB holsters and be done with it!

VERY few people actually shoot their carry gun AND their carry rig in competition AND their carry ammo (or it's recoil equivalent). I know there's a few that do, but they're few and far between.

Additionally, VERY few people actually conceal their rigs like they do in competition either. Anytime I see a photographers-vest clad guy out in public . . .

So really - what's the point?

[rhino]

I think she shoot an Open 9 Glock. (I got a rig you can borrow. )

We can share at the next match we shoot together.

Good thing we wear the same belt size!

[rhino]

So really - what's the point?

Hey! Don't confuse this issue with logic!

I'm one of those weirdos who shoots the carry gun from the IWB holster with full power factory ammo and often wears a vest in public. Well, I don't use the vest for actual concealment (my shirt does that), but I like to wear it for the pockets and the way it makes me feel about myself.

[slowsure]

For me the new rule change did make most of my gear illegal

But i just bought a sheet of Kydex and a heat gun too. I'm going to "roll my own" so actually the "no holster list" is good for me. The light in the channel and 3/4 rule are somewhat subjective. Ask any machinist what light tight is and there is no way to achive this in a holster channel. I think better verbage would be:

"If you cant see the gun when the shooter is standing around BS'ing and not taping, your legal" No bulges in the area of carry gun/mags/speedloaders. and you cant see the bottom of any thing below the concelment garment. If it sounds too easy...it probably is!

I believe taking the list out was good. The list was too limiting. Do you think that every holster that was made after the one sent to HQ was exactlly the same? I dont think so. Rules to try to eliminate the compition rig are better. These rules may need to be reviewed and hashed out, like this forum is doing.

[chp5]

So really - what's the point?

Hey! Don't confuse this issue with logic!

I'm one of those weirdos who shoots the carry gun from the IWB holster with full power factory ammo and often wears a vest in public. Well, I don't use the vest for actual concealment (my shirt does that), but I like to wear it for the pockets and the way it makes me feel about myself.

[Ray Crum]

I doubt ANY outside the waistband holster will pass the new rules.

I doubt ANY full size auto will either.

A 3/4 in gap between any part of the weapon and your body is a hill to climb. Gain LOTS of weight folks.

If you are worrying about the daylight issue, shoot at night.

In the eyes of any competent MD a Hunnicutt vest is clearly a competition garmet, as are BDU's and lace up boots and tennis shoes, range bags etc. etc. etc.

Now that IDPA is geared for the new and average shooter I finally have a chance. I am fat, old and don't practice. The holster don't matter, my four Comp-Tac rigs can still be worn for street carry and I'll buy Wilson competition equipment for IDPA use.

Ray Crum

[Merlin Orr]

I'll buy Wilson competition equipment for IDPA use.

Is this a result of the new rules? Or, were the new rules designed to have this as a result?

[vincent]

The comment on specially designed vests is oriented towards the cheater types who reinforce their pockets so they have essentially a bucket to drop their T.L.'s into.

That's funny because this has always been a rule that you couldn't have special vest pockets but there was a guy at the 2004 Nats that had such a vest. I saw him using it to dump a mag straight from the gun in a comic RWR. Even Bill Wilson mentioned it when I was talking to him about my issue. However this person completed the match without incident or penalty.

With these odd holster and magazine carrier rules that require strict combinations of belt height, belt thickness, mag carrier height, magazine length, holster, shooter build, shooter clothing, etc. to stay legal I don't see how things are better. If gear rules weren't getting enforced with things as easily recognizable as a huge propped open vest pocket then how do they expect people to be able to keep up with this new nonsense???

[GRD]

I'll buy Wilson competition equipment for IDPA use.

Now ain't that just the sum-it-all up statement.

Winner in the Head-Shaking Irony division, Ray!

- Gabe

[MLE-ShootingSports]

I noticed that the new IDPA rules mentioned a "standard" belt worn with your holster.

I suppose that the word "standard" is a relative term. For a person not carrying a firearm concealed, a standard belt might be a coton web belt, but for a person that requires something strong enough to hold a holster, any of the multi-thickness belts could be considered standard. It has to be stiff enough to hold the weight of the loaded holtser. So, you could take it one further, and have your local cobbler sew in additional leather to stiffen your belt, which could also result in blocking out the "daylight". ...provided the holster still sits close to your body....

Is that a fair assumption?

[GRD]

Alot of assumptions being made...what with all the ambiguity and contradictions.

- Gabe

[rhino]

Interesting ... the holster list was somewhat arbitrary, yet once a model was there, it was unambiguously "okay" for use in IDPA matches.

Now we have an "improved" rule that is ... ambiguous, open for interpretation, and destined to me enforced inconsistently across the land.

One step forward ... three steps back ... one step forward ... three steps back ...

[MLE-ShootingSports]

I would like to see the big names step forward, and weigh-in on the new holster [and related rig] rules.

What would I expect from them? I'd like to see them come forward and state that the IDPA should postpone the enforcement of the new rules at least one season, to allow some of us little guys to use their current rigs, and to allow suppliers and manufacturers to sell old stock, and/or re-tool to accomodate the changes.

Although there would be no sport without us little-guys, it's the big guys who raise the money, draw the crowds, and the masters that make the big matches. We have happily supported them for many years, admire their skills, and supported them by buying their products and training skills.

I would like to make a call to the Masters of the sport, to step forward and do the right thing. PLEASE HELP THE MEMBERSHIP.

Thanks,

Mike

[lndshrk]

Actually, on a positive note, during my dry fire practice this morning, I had a chance to really inspect both my Blade-Tech and Sooper Hooper holster. Without a doubt, the Sooper Hooper allows one to see DAYLIGHT, however, my newer Blade-Tech absoluteley narrows down the belt loop to a size were DAYLIGHT cannot be seen.

So . . . [B]thanks to the Blade-Tech people[/b] for anticpating a not yet projected but IDPA created problem (no bash intended).

[Duane Thomas]

So a given model of magazine carrier may be legal for say a compact Glock 19 magazine, but illegal for a standard Glock 17 magazine???

Yes.

[Duane Thomas]

---No gap is permitted in the following areas: 2. From the outside of the belt to the inside of the backpiece and/or backside of the holster.

How will most Kydex holsters with belt channels or paddles pass this test? The plastic is rigid so it has to have some play to allow different thickness belts to go through.

A few minutes work with a cigarette lighter, softening the Kydex, then pushing it in to grip the belt more snugly.