Wakal Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Link to Annoying Black Heap of ARs The top gun is an AR10, and doesn't count. The second gun is a Colt HBAR that has been un-gelded with a new A-frame and a flash hider (as Colt SHOULD have built it in the first place), and doesn't count either. The 18" ACE-stock monstrosity is my Open gun. The 16" skeleton stock below it is Liota's Open gun. 18" rifle, 16" carbine. I find that the little extra weight out front helps smooth out my transitions. Liota finds just the opposite, and had us build her a bit lighter poodleshooter with a short snout. Options are fun And the poor befuddled M4 with the 14.5" tube and the blind-pinned F2...just for "tactical ain't practical/practical ain't tactical" matches Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerSniper158 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Just an FYI.. Taran is shooting a 17" gun.. both of our uppers are built by the same person ( Paul at MSTN ). He found going from 18" to 17" the change in velocity was so small that the shorter barrel was worth going to for ease of handling, and pointability. CS#158 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Kelly, Thanks for the compliments. :-) BTW did you watch PSV 6? What did you think? FYI - I was shooting my tactical 16" JP in that match with a 4 lb trigger. It does have a tuned gas system - shorty. Now I prefer an 18" with a long gas tube. It just seems to have less vibration or shake than the shorty gas systems. I like the 16" for portability esp. in hallways. I like the slightly longer gun for longer shots like we have at the MGM. The 16 is better off hand most of the time but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Sometimes having the comp a little further away from you can be a big help and keep some of the blast off the skull. I also like running the longest handguard I can on the gun. It just gives me more options on how to mount bipods, grip it, and use it for a rest on barricades etc. Take care, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 FYI I really hate VFG's. They seem to do nothing beneficial and only get in the way. If you have a laser/light package or something I can see their use, but, for 3 gun IMHO they are pretty pointless. If someone can give me a good reason to use one I would love to hear it - other than they look cool. How are they faster or more stable or whatever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 The VFG rifle was faster for me when I was re-engaging targets more than transitioning between targets. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Matt: You have missed the added benifit of being able to hang the rifle from a wall or overhead pipe when you have the VFG, And if you get the right one it is a handy bottle opener. Benny will have to be checked with for the "other" uses! Bear, where is that VFG for My M1A?? you promissed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Matt, I would tell you all about the benefits of the VFG, but I have a rule about helping people beat my ass even worse than they currently are! Kurt, I've got it right here. I'll bring it to Mississippi this year. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paule Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 CS158 is correct, Taran is shooting our 17" uppers currently. Last year he shot our 18's for awhile, then swiched to the 17's to make them a little easier to get around barriers, etc. The drop to 150 really changed things as we can now make minor with virtually all commercial ammo down to 14.75" with our 6-groove barrels. It still seems like the rifle stages are won on the long targets, but they can be lost on the short ones. Our pressure points are simple. We work for the fastest cycling rifles that net the least amount of sight picture disruption, and still have acceptable accuracy for longer shots. For us, this means no carbine gas systems. For 17-20" the rifle length gas works best, for shorter tubes we use mid-length gas systems. Zak, XM193 is likely okay for 170PF at your elevation on a warm day, but won't make it here in Elvisville on a cold day. 150PF is no problem, even in a 14.5". Matt, you should try one of our brakes. Not so noisy for you! VFG's? They seem to be out of vogue in 3-Gun, but they are SOP for the good guys out on the two-way ranges. I'm lucky enough to see them train from time to time and they are seriously fast with them. They don't have to stick them through shooting ports much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Paul, Are the gas ports standard diameter on your 17" uppers or do you enlarge them? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Prior to this thread I was having my gunsmith cut my 20" Bushmaster government profile barrel down to 18". Instead, I had him cut it down to 17". No gas port work. I shot it yesterday and it was 100% with xm193, Q3131a and Wolf. I was concerned that the Wolf wouldn't run it because its slighly underpowered, but it ran fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 Thanks for the report Cy. Looks like I'm going to cut mine down to 17" sometime in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 After reading these posts, I just had one of my 24" cut down to 17". Even with downloaded ammo it functioned fine, and it must have changed the harmonics, because it shoots more accurate than it ever did when it was 24". I think I'm going to mount a "dot" sight oto the handguard and am thinking of changing the stock to one of the tube style, with the foam rubber. Any suggestions as to which stock would be best? Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Re: VFGs ... I think they are most useful for light weight guns with carbine length gas systems. If you have a rifle that doesn't move when you shoot, I think there is less benefit, but for a superlight carbine, it helps you minimize dot movement. I don't have one (I hang onto the magwell for the same reason), but I think it might be a little faster for transitions than my current hold and still help me pull back tightly enough to minimize movement of the sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Dave Lauck has a nifty stock atD&L Sports. It's tubular with the foam padding, but has storage for a knock out rod and a spare bolt/batteries, etc. For the pure tube look I think Ace about has the market cornered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGDM Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I built my first 18" gun about 4 years ago using a mid length gas system and carbon float tube. This protects the gas system, allows more tube for resting on props, and easy to break down for cleaning. The gun ran 100% and was a tack driver until it was stolen. The ghetto grip has its uses but not in 3-Gun. We engineered the grip so we would be able to hang on to our gun after strapping on all the crap we hang on them today. I also show my guys how to use the grip for a mono pod when prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I assume none of you guys with sub-20" barrels shoot Limited. I just can't see the weight/handling benefits outweighing the extra sight radius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGDM Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Yes Sir...I shoot limited with 16 and 18 inch guns. I attach my flip up sight to the front of the tube which gives me the same sight radius as a 20". The scope was on there while testing accuracy of the Krieger bbl then rerplaced with an EO Tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Dave Lauck has a nifty stock atD&L Sports. It's tubular with the foam padding, but has storage for a knock out rod and a spare bolt/batteries, etc.For the pure tube look I think Ace about has the market cornered. Thanks for the information! Wow, are his stocks pricy! I'm thinking an Ace will be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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