openclassterror Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Local matches are a good place for random draw. In our local club, the same 5 guys take turns at the top every month. It is discouraging to the hometown enthusiast who is 58 and has a bum knee to know that no matter what he will get leftovers. We have a bigger annual match where prizes are awarded by finish, but the monthly club match is random, when we have the stuff for a table. At the NWMGC last year, I had major equipment malfs. Finished bottom third, but still walked away from the prize table with a Warne RAMP mount, a slide racker for my XDm open pistol, and a few other things. Totally made my day after a disappointing shoot. I appreciate how hard Doug works to make the prize table what it is. If I want to get one of the Colt rifles, gonna have to practice as much as the guys who win them. Pretty simple really Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarvinPilgrim Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Local matches are a good place for random draw. In our local club, the same 5 guys take turns at the top every month. It is discouraging to the hometown enthusiast who is 58 and has a bum knee to know that no matter what he will get leftovers. We have a bigger annual match where prizes are awarded by finish, but the monthly club match is random, when we have the stuff for a table. At the NWMGC last year, I had major equipment malfs. Finished bottom third, but still walked away from the prize table with a Warne RAMP mount, a slide racker for my XDm open pistol, and a few other things. Totally made my day after a disappointing shoot. I appreciate how hard Doug works to make the prize table what it is. If I want to get one of the Colt rifles, gonna have to practice as much as the guys who win them. Pretty simple really Tom A very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The one "prize" thing I failed to mention in post #42 was the JP Multi-Gun expert pin. I will never forget how I felt as I walked towards JP with his hand stretched out to shake mine and that pin in the other hand. To me, that was the most important object I ever got at a match, not for the tangible value, but for what it represented. It was validation as a 3Gunner, from a match and a man who have always held high standards and tried to do the best they could. Mark, I couldn't agree more - I cherish my "JP Pins" from RM3G more than anything else I've ever gotten off a prize table. The validation they represent means a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The one "prize" thing I failed to mention in post #42 was the JP Multi-Gun expert pin. I will never forget how I felt as I walked towards JP with his hand stretched out to shake mine and that pin in the other hand. To me, that was the most important object I ever got at a match, not for the tangible value, but for what it represented. It was validation as a 3Gunner, from a match and a man who have always held high standards and tried to do the best they could.Mark,I couldn't agree more - I cherish my "JP Pins" from RM3G more than anything else I've ever gotten off a prize table. The validation they represent means a whole lot. I have 2 of those pins now. I put them on the bill of the JP hat which came with my LRP-07. That hat sits on my very small shelf of shame with my couple of other trophies and the hat is front and center. Thank you JP for sponsoring out sport. Thank you for the excellent rifles and thank you for my pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Why does this always come up? Its pretty obvious that if you don't have a sponsor paying you to attend every match the only way to afford to shoot a bunch of majors is via shooting your way to a top prize off the prize table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Why does this always come up? Its pretty obvious that if you don't have a sponsor paying you to attend every match the only way to afford to shoot a bunch of majors is via shooting your way to a top prize off the prize table. Actually, there are maybe 30 of you guys, this discussion is really for the rest of us trying to maximize the amount of fun per dollar. When a guy gets $100 worth of stuff off the prize table, he naturally wants to see a lower match fee. I understand, I was in that boat for several years, and the VAST majority of 3Gunners are on that well packed barge longing for a day on the yacht or maybe even the speedboat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Why does this always come up? Its pretty obvious that if you don't have a sponsor paying you to attend every match the only way to afford to shoot a bunch of majors is via shooting your way to a top prize off the prize table. Jesse, You're right about that. Unless one is independently wealthy, prize table loot is key to recouping expenses for anyone who shoots more than a few majors a year. My goal is to try and least break even, which means the value of the prize equals or exceeds match fees, travel and hotel expenses. I'm successful maybe half the time and the other half usually come within a couple hundred bucks of breaking even. But, I still really dig my JP Pins the most! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Why does this always come up? Its pretty obvious that if you don't have a sponsor paying you to attend every match the only way to afford to shoot a bunch of majors is via shooting your way to a top prize off the prize table. True and if we did not reward pro shooters like you the sport would not be as good as it is today. If people are not rewarded they don't try as hard. There is a LEO only match I have attended the last 6 years or so and I have done very well. The last few years they started giving the guns out by random draw because they said they wanted everyone to have an equal chance to win the guns. I said everyone does have an equal chance they just have to earn them. Pat Edited April 17, 2014 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Why does this always come up? Its pretty obvious that if you don't have a sponsor paying you to attend every match the only way to afford to shoot a bunch of majors is via shooting your way to a top prize off the prize table. Actually, there are maybe 30 of you guys, this discussion is really for the rest of us trying to maximize the amount of fun per dollar. When a guy gets $100 worth of stuff off the prize table, he naturally wants to see a lower match fee. I understand, I was in that boat for several years, and the VAST majority of 3Gunners are on that well packed barge longing for a day on the yacht or maybe even the speedboat. How about this? What exact matches would you travel to year after year if you didn't get a prize, couldn't RO to truce the expense and had to drive more than 600 miles each way or fly but only had a $100 match fee?I would just shoot the ones close by. ProAm with and the night matches are about the only thing that offers a big enough change of pace from a good club match but I doubt I'd spend $1000-1500 every year on that. If just shoot 50+ club matches a year. Edited April 17, 2014 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 How about this? What exact matches would you travel to year after year if you didn't get a prize, couldn't RO to truce the expense and had to drive more than 600 miles each way or fly but only had a $100 match fee? Jesse, I am not arguing against prize tables at all. I am all for them and I do not attend matches with random draws. I know I can beat the average 3Gunner, but I know I can't beat most of the Pros, and that is who I want to stack up against. But, SMM3G, RM3G, CTM3G and FNH3G. In fact, I can not go to RM3G this year so I am going to shoot He-Man as a wee-wee just to get my fix of RM3G stages, for which I might get a tiara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 How about this? What exact matches would you travel to year after year if you didn't get a prize, couldn't RO to truce the expense and had to drive more than 600 miles each way or fly but only had a $100 match fee? Jesse, I am not arguing against prize tables at all. I am all for them and I do not attend matches with random draws. I know I can beat the average 3Gunner, but I know I can't beat most of the Pros, and that is who I want to stack up against. But, SMM3G, RM3G, CTM3G and FNH3G. In fact, I can not go to RM3G this year so I am going to shoot He-Man as a wee-wee just to get my fix of RM3G stages, for which I might get a tiara. What other big matches do you attend now with prize tables and big match fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 How about this? What exact matches would you travel to year after year if you didn't get a prize, couldn't RO to truce the expense and had to drive more than 600 miles each way or fly but only had a $100 match fee? Jesse, I am not arguing against prize tables at all. I am all for them and I do not attend matches with random draws. I know I can beat the average 3Gunner, but I know I can't beat most of the Pros, and that is who I want to stack up against. But, SMM3G, RM3G, CTM3G and FNH3G. In fact, I can not go to RM3G this year so I am going to shoot He-Man as a wee-wee just to get my fix of RM3G stages, for which I might get a tiara. What other big matches do you attend now with prize tables and big match fees? Depending on the year, anywhere from 6 to 10. I am not able to make 2 of those 4 this year though, even though I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 How about this? What exact matches would you travel to year after year if you didn't get a prize, couldn't RO to truce the expense and had to drive more than 600 miles each way or fly but only had a $100 match fee? Jesse, I am not arguing against prize tables at all. I am all for them and I do not attend matches with random draws. I know I can beat the average 3Gunner, but I know I can't beat most of the Pros, and that is who I want to stack up against. But, SMM3G, RM3G, CTM3G and FNH3G. In fact, I can not go to RM3G this year so I am going to shoot He-Man as a wee-wee just to get my fix of RM3G stages, for which I might get a tiara. What other big matches do you attend now with prize tables and big match fees? Depending on the year, anywhere from 6 to 10. I am not able to make 2 of those 4 this year though, even though I want to. Same for me I'd hit the 4-6 close by with a truckload of shooting buddies to pay for gas and I'd fly to ProAm or FNH to see all my out of town friends once or twice a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Here's an idea. What if manufacturers quit donating all together to prize tables and instead invested the $ in sponsoring shooters. So the top 100 or 200 shooters get cash to go travel to all the $100 trophy matches to shoot with the locals to see who stacks up as the best. The money still goes to the top performers just in a different manner. You want to be sponsored? Simple spend your cash to practice and compete and and earn your ride. Edited April 17, 2014 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Your idea has merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Dammit Jesse! The reason is semi-competent shooters like me! I don't ever get to pick out a new rifle off the prize table, but I walk through while there are still piles in the 2-500 dollar range. If only the top 100 shooters in the nation got sponsorships and the prize table disappeared, there would be NOTHING for the middle of the road guys like me. It is fun being the big fish in a small pond at club matches, but I really measure my improvement by how high I climb at the bigger matches. If all the big matches were $100 for non-sponsored shooters (who now have to shoot against 100 guys who ALL get paid to shoot), just to show up and get spanked by the big boys that would suck. Especially if I didn't even get an Otis cleaning kit to swab my wounded pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Agree with Open Class Terror. The way we have it now is best. Pro's get guns middle of the road guys get middle of the road stuff and even last place finisher get something. Remove that and I would not travel for any outside matches. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I shoot a lot of local matches for the fun of the sport and a good time with friends. What few majors i shoot, i again shoot for the fun of the sport and to compare myself to larger compeition but the prize table is also a big part of it. If i think i have a change to win a few hundred dollars off the table somehow, it makes it easier in my mind to spend the couple hundred dollar entry fee, gas, hotel, etc. Would I do it if there were no prizes, maybe. But i'd probably cut the distance I'd travel down quite a bit. The prize table is the big draw. Fact: Everyone wants to win stuff and go home with a new gun. Anyone who says otherwise, Ill happily take your winnings at the next match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinWolv Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 What Corey said. In fact, there have been some semi-local/instate matches that I didn't go to because they didn't have prize tables, even though the entry and travel expenses were less than some of the "bigs" I've gone to like RM3G, SMM3G, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropsitos Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Our local club has one or two big matches a year, with cash payouts. Last year they instuited a really nice payout system that was nice for those of us that finish middle to bottom. When you sign up, you pick a class which is a % of the top the finisher's score. So 90-40% (iirc) by 10% increments. The payouts are split up so that the highest payouts are paid to the top 3 in the 100% class. The other classes have 1 or 2 positions with payouts. The payouts are graduated so that if you finish in a higher class your payout is better. However if you shoot better than your chosen class you broke out of your bracket. So you have the chance to win something if you shoot better than people who you think are your peers, and if you breakout of your class, well then you are better than u think you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 That is kinda cool.....Like drag racing with a dial-in! I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 We actually did our shoot-off at Noveske as a dial your time the past 2 years. It is pretty cool as anyone from top to bottom gets an equal shot. Dan T. still talks about beating Don B. in the shootoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 You want to be sponsored? Simple spend your cash to practice and compete and and earn your ride. That cracks me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 MHO The prize table is for the rank and file, you know the ones that actually grow the sport. Not the 100 or so pros that eek out a living shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 You want to be sponsored? Simple spend your cash to practice and compete and and earn your ride. That cracks me up. What part? Practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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