Stage planning

[SISIG]

As a newbie could you guys tell me the how, why, why not, where of stage planning/breakdown. I shoot production so l need to be efficient in my game plan.

[joshxdm9]

I learn by watching other shooters and pay attention to there times. There is usually more than one efficient way to shoot stages. It is going to come down to what skills and movements you are better at than others. Avoid traps on stages if at all possible until your last position. I learned that from a gm last match. I was doing my walk threw and going straight into a trap that was going to cost me at least 3-4 seconds on that stage. Always try to keep moving and shooting as much as possible. I am still learning and fairly new to the uspsa game and these are the things I look for when gaming a stage.

[Hi-Power Jack]

watch other shooters,,, try to keep moving and shooting

Watch other Production shooters - not the ltd/open shooters:((

Learning to shoot on the move takes some time - great time saver, if you know how

+1. Don't be looking around to find targets when you're shooting - know where the

next target is when the whistle goes off.

Remember where you're going to reload - nothing worse (ok, there are some things

worse) than a standing reload.

When you've finished the COF, and suddenly remember you didn't shoot one (or more)

targets - think (quickly) whether it's better to take the penalty, or start

shooting again (especially if you have to change positions or reload).

If you go back to shoot another target, don't break the 180 or endanger the R.O.

[BillChunn]

Arrive at the start position with a plan that matches your shooting ability. Just because a Production Grand Master can hit those two poppers that activate two drop-turning disappearing targets and get 4 alphas on them, that doesn't mean that you can. Know your ability and shoot within it.

Stick to your plan. Nothing worse that seeing the guy (or gal) right in front of you rip through the stage using a completely different approach that what you came up with. Changing your plan right before shooting the stage is just asking for trouble. You will get part way through it and then not remember what you were supposed to shoot from where and when. (Been There, Done That)

Use a visual aid to trigger your reload. If you are going to reload coming out of a certain position, during the walk thru remember what that part of the stage looks like. Maybe it's a section of wall, maybe it's a door or just an open area but seeing that should activate your thumb to the magazine release to initiate the reload.

As already mentioned, shooting on the move is faster than stopping to get the perfect sight picture and pulling the trigger. It takes practice and the ability to keep your upper body calm while moving. The first thing to learn is to shoot with your knees bent and use them as "shock absorbers" to keep your arms and the gun stable, improving your sight picture.

Arrive at the shooting position looking over the sights at the target to be engaged. Time can be saved there. Start leaving the shooting position (if you can) before firing the last shot, just don't put your foot down outside the designated free fire zone or you'll get a procedural. Have it in the air when you break the last shot for that array. Time can also be saved there.

Talk to other shooters and ask questions. Ask them why they did something a specific way. Why did they engage that array of targets in that order? Most will be happy to answer, just don't do it when they are about to run the stage.

BC

Edited March 12, 2014 by BillChunn

[paul788]

Walk the stage and find ALL the targets. Work out how you will shoot each array(these 4 first going right to left, then move to the second array and start with the left and shoot to the right, do a reload moving to the third array, etc) That is the first and most important thing. Next walk your plan multiple times. Then stand and visualize it with your eyes closed. Do this at least five times before you shoot. What you are striving for is to arrive at a shooting position with the gun up and aligned with the first target, and then leaving for the next spot and knowing where it is and what the array looks like.

When you can do this, you can snatch the pebble from my hand grasshopper.

Paul

[alma]

Shooting on the move is a needed skill but not necessarily something that you should always look to do.

As a Production shooter, a lot of my stage planning it spent breaking the stage down into chunks separated by reloads.

Never do a flat footed reload.

Reloads should always be done after leaving one array of targets and be done before arriving to the next. Very often you will be planted and shooting 6 to 10 shots. There is nothing wrong with that. The rule I always heard is if your feet are moving then you are reloading. It is however important to be ready to shoot as soon at you step into your shooting position and if possible try to get your momentum started again before or as you finish from that position. Economy on motion will always be key in USPSA and the less time you spend getting into or coming out of positions the better.

Like others I usually start overall by counting the targets. Then as I walk through and break down the stage I ensure that my stage plan adds up to the correct number of shots fired. By the time I finish my plan I also want to know exactly where I will be when I engage each target. Usually the fewer positions the better.

Options are an important element of USPSA shooting and they are a personal thing. You need to discover for yourself whether you will be better off shooting some targets from a distance or running up for a closer shot. Also, you will have a preference on where and how many extra rounds you want to have in your magazine to do make up shots on steel or other hard targets. This will be a personal thing.

The most advanced type of stage planning will include making estimates of the high hit factor on each stage. This will give you insight onto whether speed or accuracy is relatively more important on any given stage. Beyond that understanding how fact you can sprint from one area to another and your relative splits on and between various targets can help you with advanced planning but that level likely isn't required until you get above A class.

Edited March 12, 2014 by alma

[ktm300]

As a newbie could you guys tell me the how, why, why not, where of stage planning/breakdown. I shoot production so l need to be efficient in my game plan.

I wish I had read Ben Stoeger's book Practical Pistol before I ever started shooting. He has a great section on how to break down a stage in that book. Down to the level of how to do your walk through etc. I go back and read it about every 3 months and learn something new each time.

Learning a good process for breaking down a stage and creating a plan is vital.

[ktm300]

One more thing, having a bad plan is much better than not having a plan at all.

[paul788]

One more thing, having a bad plan is much better than not having a plan at all.

Having and executing a bad plan is much better than not having a plan at all. Never go to the starting position if you are not sure of what your plan is and how to execute it. Ask to let someone else go and move down the shooting order.

Paul

[wurm]

First, show up early. If it is a major match, try and show up the day before so you can take as much time as needed to come up with a good stage plan. If it is a local match, still try and show up as early as you can. The more time you give yourself to plan each stage the more confident you can feel with your plan. As you get better at stage planning you may require less time to come up with good plans but I still see good shooters showing up as early as possible and working on their plans. Don't think the 5 minutes you get before shooting starts is enough time to get ready.

Second, look at the written stage briefing. It will tell you the start position, how may targets there are, how many shots to fire at each, etc.

Once you have that information, take a look at the stage and make sure you know where every target is. Take a walk around the back side of the stage if necessary to make sure you know where everything is. I like to identify any targets that must be taken from a specific position. If I have to go to that position, I will try and see if I can engage more targets from there since I have to be there anyway. If you have a 32 round course but there are two positions you have to go to and you can fire 8 shots from each, you only have 16 shots you need to plan for. Makes planning a little easier.

For production or other capacity limited divisions, you will be shooting mostly 8 shot arrays, or around there and then reloading while moving to the next position. Don't be afraid however to have a plan that has you reloading before 8 shots if it works better or even fire all 11 in the magazine from time to time. I try not to have my stage plans run me to slide lock very often in case I need a make up shot but every now and then it is just the best way to do something so I will happily do it.

Stage planning is a skill like much of what we do. It takes practice and time before you will get really good at it. Definitely talk to other production shooters and ask them what their plans are and why they are doing it that way. Watch videos of matches you have shot afterwards and look at the way the top guys did it. I find that very helpful. Squad with other people sometimes and not just your buddies, especially if you have anyone local that is really good.

Like others mentioned, once you have a good plan, run it a bunch, first physically and then in your mind. I like to try and run the stage dry at the actual speed I would be shooting it in if possible. You need to have your plan burned into your brain so you can execute it without having to think a whole lot while you are doing it. This means repetition. Don't just come up with a plan, give it a few seconds thought and think you will be able to execute it like a pro. Repeat it over and over again as much as you need to make sure you know it. Before you are up to shoot, run it over again a few more times in your head to make sure it is fresh in your mind. Plenty of time to talk and socialize after your run.

[grapemeister]

Soak in all the good advice and shoot lots of matches. My best education has come from the experience of shooting matches, including a variety of club matches, and major matches. Always go with the intent of learning.

[SISIG]

Arrive at the start position with a plan that matches your shooting ability. Just because a Production Grand Master can hit those two poppers that activate two drop-turning disappearing targets and get 4 alphas on them, that doesn't mean that you can. Know your ability and shoot within it.

Stick to your plan. Nothing worse that seeing the guy (or gal) right in front of you rip through the stage using a completely different approach that what you came up with. Changing your plan right before shooting the stage is just asking for trouble. You will get part way through it and then not remember what you were supposed to shoot from where and when. (Been There, Done That)

Use a visual aid to trigger your reload. If you are going to reload coming out of a certain position, during the walk thru remember what that part of the stage looks like. Maybe it's a section of wall, maybe it's a door or just an open area but seeing that should activate your thumb to the magazine release to initiate the reload.

As already mentioned, shooting on the move is faster than stopping to get the perfect sight picture and pulling the trigger. It takes practice and the ability to keep your upper body calm while moving. The first thing to learn is to shoot with your knees bent and use them as "shock absorbers" to keep your arms and the gun stable, improving your sight picture.

Arrive at the shooting position looking over the sights at the target to be engaged. Time can be saved there. Start leaving the shooting position (if you can) before firing the last shot, just don't put your foot down outside the designated free fire zone or you'll get a procedural. Have it in the air when you break the last shot for that array. Time can also be saved there.

Talk to other shooters and ask questions. Ask them why they did something a specific way. Why did they engage that array of targets in that order? Most will be happy to answer, just don't do it when they are about to run the stage.

BC

Wow, you just describe my plan that I have practice prior to last sunday match.

Walk the stage and find ALL the targets. Work out how you will shoot each array(these 4 first going right to left, then move to the second array and start with the left and shoot to the right, do a reload moving to the third array, etc) That is the first and most important thing. Next walk your plan multiple times. Then stand and visualize it with your eyes closed. Do this at least five times before you shoot. What you are striving for is to arrive at a shooting position with the gun up and aligned with the first target, and then leaving for the next spot and knowing where it is and what the array looks like.

When you can do this, you can snatch the pebble from my hand grasshopper.

Paul

After I read the COF, I did my walkthrough starting front to back and went to simulate the physical dry part and visualize it slowly then at speed.

Shooting on the move is a needed skill but not necessarily something that you should always look to do.

As a Production shooter, a lot of my stage planning it spent breaking the stage down into chunks separated by reloads.

Never do a flat footed reload.

Reloads should always be done after leaving one array of targets and be done before arriving to the next. Very often you will be planted and shooting 6 to 10 shots. There is nothing wrong with that. The rule I always heard is if your feet are moving then you are reloading. It is however important to be ready to shoot as soon at you step into your shooting position and if possible try to get your momentum started again before or as you finish from that position. Economy on motion will always be key in USPSA and the less time you spend getting into or coming out of positions the better.

Like others I usually start overall by counting the targets. Then as I walk through and break down the stage I ensure that my stage plan adds up to the correct number of shots fired. By the time I finish my plan I also want to know exactly where I will be when I engage each target. Usually the fewer positions the better.

Options are an important element of USPSA shooting and they are a personal thing. You need to discover for yourself whether you will be better off shooting some targets from a distance or running up for a closer shot. Also, you will have a preference on where and how many extra rounds you want to have in your magazine to do make up shots on steel or other hard targets. This will be a personal thing.

The most advanced type of stage planning will include making estimates of the high hit factor on each stage. This will give you insight onto whether speed or accuracy is relatively more important on any given stage. Beyond that understanding how fact you can sprint from one area to another and your relative splits on and between various targets can help you with advanced planning but that level likely isn't required until you get above A class.

I have notice some folks shoot the farther target first and they get faster with closer target. Then I tried it myself only to have a Mike.

First, show up early. If it is a major match, try and show up the day before so you can take as much time as needed to come up with a good stage plan. If it is a local match, still try and show up as early as you can. The more time you give yourself to plan each stage the more confident you can feel with your plan. As you get better at stage planning you may require less time to come up with good plans but I still see good shooters showing up as early as possible and working on their plans. Don't think the 5 minutes you get before shooting starts is enough time to get ready.

Second, look at the written stage briefing. It will tell you the start position, how may targets there are, how many shots to fire at each, etc.

Once you have that information, take a look at the stage and make sure you know where every target is. Take a walk around the back side of the stage if necessary to make sure you know where everything is. I like to identify any targets that must be taken from a specific position. If I have to go to that position, I will try and see if I can engage more targets from there since I have to be there anyway. If you have a 32 round course but there are two positions you have to go to and you can fire 8 shots from each, you only have 16 shots you need to plan for. Makes planning a little easier.

For production or other capacity limited divisions, you will be shooting mostly 8 shot arrays, or around there and then reloading while moving to the next position. Don't be afraid however to have a plan that has you reloading before 8 shots if it works better or even fire all 11 in the magazine from time to time. I try not to have my stage plans run me to slide lock very often in case I need a make up shot but every now and then it is just the best way to do something so I will happily do it.

Stage planning is a skill like much of what we do. It takes practice and time before you will get really good at it. Definitely talk to other production shooters and ask them what their plans are and why they are doing it that way. Watch videos of matches you have shot afterwards and look at the way the top guys did it. I find that very helpful. Squad with other people sometimes and not just your buddies, especially if you have anyone local that is really good.

Like others mentioned, once you have a good plan, run it a bunch, first physically and then in your mind. I like to try and run the stage dry at the actual speed I would be shooting it in if possible. You need to have your plan burned into your brain so you can execute it without having to think a whole lot while you are doing it. This means repetition. Don't just come up with a plan, give it a few seconds thought and think you will be able to execute it like a pro. Repeat it over and over again as much as you need to make sure you know it. Before you are up to shoot, run it over again a few more times in your head to make sure it is fresh in your mind. Plenty of time to talk and socialize after your run.

I have been practicing specific skill daily reload, trigger, movement, entry and exit and was surprised that it all came together smoothly last sunday. Now I will set my dry fire target with a precise round count and a very specific reload spot and will run it at a very deliberate pace. Wow! guys thank you for all this advise, fundamentals are not just grip, trigger, sight pic/alignment but also might include stage planning, proper breathing and the efficiency of movement. The way I practice has/have change dramatically, it both precise and measusrable.

[Nimitz]

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, which makes most things talked about in this thread moot if you don't learn how to do it, is you must learn to visualize your plan. If you step up to the start position at LAMR and can not close your eyes and literally run the entire stage in your head, every target in order, every position, where your stop markers are, where your stage markers are, transitions, etc, etc you are not ready to shoot and most likely will not execute your plan, no matter how good a plan you had.

Personally, I would rank this skill as more important than a fast draw or fast reload when first starting out. The reaon for this is that the only real way to practice your stage visualization skills are at matches. You can and should be doing visualization during training but the ability to visualize an entire complicated field course is different.

Visualization is an important part of training correctly as well and you must master this skill if you expect to be good at stage planning ...

[SISIG]

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, which makes most things talked about in this thread moot if you don't learn how to do it, is you must learn to visualize your plan. If you step up to the start position at LAMR and can not close your eyes and literally run the entire stage in your head, every target in order, every position, where your stop markers are, where your stage markers are, transitions, etc, etc you are not ready to shoot and most likely will not execute your plan, no matter how good a plan you had.

Personally, I would rank this skill as more important than a fast draw or fast reload when first starting out. The reaon for this is that the only real way to practice your stage visualization skills are at matches. You can and should be doing visualization during training but the ability to visualize an entire complicated field course is different.

Visualization is an important part of training correctly as well and you must master this skill if you expect to be good at stage planning ...

I have started visualizing with my trigger reset with front sight focus at first, and have move on to my built cof dry fire just to get use to seeing and putting myself in the actual action. It was blurry at first and I think it has became clear as I started some reps.

The hope is to get used to it as part of my whole process, I have learned and will continue so with refinement that will work for my skill set/speed.

[Nimitz]

Remember, visualizing something that you already know (your CoF) is ok but at matches you'll hav to be able to memorize and then visualize something you're seeing for the first time .... If you can change your setup to something different on a regular basis that would be good .....

Also, do you know how many times you should visualize a stage before its your turn to shoot when at a match?

[DoubleL]

I'm pretty new also OP and for me the biggest gain so far has been to walk through and find and count targets and then back away after your walk and somehow visually remember where each one is. I figure if I can't even find all the targets it doesn't really matter if I reload an extra time or whatever. Leaving FTE's all over is a big bummer and the easiest way to pretty much tank your whole days scores.

Also a huge + 1 million to NOT watching the run just before yours. Especially if it's an open or limited guy because that always trashes my production plan! Sometimes I'll turn away and listen to the shooter and try to mentally mark each target as he shoots.

Just keep hitting matches and you're bound to get better at it, play to your strengths and note your weaknesses then practice to eliminate the weak spots in your game. That reminds me, the very first thing I learned that ever helped me was to remind myself at each stage that it's a game and to have fun relax and shoot.

[ricardo28]

I shoot SS but took away something from a friend who I shoot with. Although he is OPEN and fast on his way to M, he is constantly faster than every other shooter, GM, M, whoever. When he gets to the line, He closes his eyes and you can watch him walk himself through the stage with his eyes closed. This IMO, is proof you know what your plan is and know the layout. Ill be working on doing that before my stages.

[ZackJones]

Walk the stage and find ALL the targets.

This is right on the money. I screwed up a stage by not doing so this past weekend. I had a plan and shot my plan. Unfortunately my plan did not include one target so not only did I use points for two mikes I also earned a failure to engage penalty which cost me more points. Even though we had a 5 minute walk through I never saw the one target for some reason. 100% my screw up but a valuable lesson was learned.

[C-Money]

I lost winning my division/class w/e special person award for forgetting a target once. Now I check and make sure to make a plan which guarantees seeing everything. If you might miss a target, get a visual cue to help you remember where it is and that you haven't shot it yet. For instance, a match had a bunch of targets easy to forget but all near barrels. No barrel stacks were unused in that COF- all had targets nearby. So it was a matter of looking for barrels which sped up my stage a bit.

[JAFO]

I'll echo others on picking a plan and staying with it. Make a plan, even consult other better shooters during the walkthrough. Visualize it and stick with it. It might not be the best one, but if you try to change your plan when you're on deck, chances are it won't go well. I too, have been there, done that.

Don't be afraid to think outside the box on movement. The stage designer may have envisioned you running the stage a certain way, usually all within the shooting area. But sometimes it's faster to go outside the shooting area and back in.

I learned something at the Texas Open this year about planning individual target arrays. I went in to a position planning to take 4 targets from there: 1 close open target, 2x far open targets, and 1 intermediate with hardcover left and right of the A zone (in that order). I left the hardcover for last as it seemed to flow better, but I ended up throwing a mike into hardcover on my last shot in the array. My head was already thinking about the reload that was coming and moving to the next position. A squadmate told me later that on arrays like that, go to the harder target first and give it the attention it deserves. You're more likely to lose focus on the last target as you're moving out. Better that results in a A/C on a wide open target than A/M or A/M/NS on a hard one.

As others have said, shoot within your abilities, but don't be deathly afraid to plan down to the last round in the mag as you improve. If you can save a reload, it might be worth it. A good example would be a final position that's got two close ports, one with two paper and one large popper, and the other with three paper. Say the ports are such that it only takes a half-step and a pivot to move between them. If you give that popper an extra fraction of a second to make sure you hit it in one shot, you can take the rest of the paper targets and save what's essentially a flat-footed reload between ports.

[lknbigfish]

some great info here