Newb Question, Accuracy of scales/powder measures

[G17]

Forgive me if this question sounds silly. I'v only been reloading for a short time now, and i'v done it all on a single stage press. I have a lyman digital scale that only weighs one decibel place over. ex (0.0). I know there are some more expensive ones that will go two decibel places over (0.00).

Basically, i feel like i'v gotten the hang of things and no longer wish to dump an excessive amount of time into reloading like what is required with a single stage press. I'm going to either order a Hornady LNL or a Dillon 550.

I know very little about the powder measures they use and how they work other then they use some type of a disk system.

My question is how accurate would one of those powder measures be as opposed to weighing each charge out on a scale. Are the powder measures pretty easy to set up and operate? Do they have much of a variance? Just a few question that have been in my head and was hoping to have a better idea of what to expect when i get my press.

I'm so ready to be done with weighing each individual charge out on this scale, spraying windex on it to try and get it to hold a zero.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any input.

0Chris

[ridenrunwv]

I've been wondering the same thing. Always been more into precision long range rifle shooting and single stage worked fine for that but now I'm trying to get into USPSA and want a progressive press.

[Sarge]

The charges on the Dillon will easily be within acceptable standards. You do realize there are thousands and thousands of them in use right? The Dillons don't use disks. It just slides a bar under the hopper and dispenses the set amount. Slides it back out and dumps it in a case. Pretty simple and repeatable.

There is no way measuring one load at a time will cut it in the volumes we shoot.

The variances are why we drop ten and average the weight. The drops can vary slightly AND scales can vary slightly. We just drop a bunch and average it out until we get what we are looking for. Once I set my drop on my 650(and 550 when I had it, they are identical) I only check it about every 500 rounds or so to make sure it is not drifting.

[Hi-Power Jack]

The Dillon powder measuring devices are very good if you use powders that meter well -

it's a volumetric measurement, rather than a weight measure.

For USPSA/IDPA, there's no need for any greater accuracy.

Most people load their .223 on a Dillon reloader -

unless they're trying to obtain ultra accuracy (long range), then

they use a more precise measuring device.

My Dillon Square Deal makes 9mm major ammo that groups into

1" at 25 yards, when I do my part.

Once you've set the volume powder you feel is necessary,

you run 20 or so rounds thru a Chrono to make sure the

velocity is where you want it.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Hi-Power Jack

[Pasley]

If you are loading on a single stage press and are weighing every charge then you can increase your speed a tremendous amount just by getting a powder measure.

A lot of (if not most) top bench rest shooters don't weigh their powder charges.

I load 1,000-1,500 rounds per month on a single stage press. It takes me a little over an hour/100, something like 65 minutes. I'm retired and have the time though it does get old sometimes.

[Doc Hunter]

The real question is how accurate is your scale? If it is an electronic scale. Measure something and then weigh it again in five mins.. See what you get. You just might be surprised. So be careful blaming other parts like the powder measure. It is likely more accurate than your scale - you just don't know it.

[G17]

The real question is how accurate is your scale? If it is an electronic scale. Measure something and then weigh it again in five mins.. See what you get. You just might be surprised. So be careful blaming other parts like the powder measure. It is likely more accurate than your scale - you just don't know it.

Who in this thread blamed the powder measure for anything?

I'm pretty sure i blamed my digi scale for not holding a zero though..

[Pasley]

I have about the cheapest balance beam scale there is, a Lee. It's been working just fine for many years.

I have about the most expensive powder measure there is, a Harrell. It is like a Ferrari among Hondas.

The hash marks on the measure are hard to read with my old eyes and the scale keeps me from making a gross mistake.

To the op, get three 9mm cases. Weigh a powder charge to the nth with your scales, load one 2/10s lighter and one 2/10s heavier. Line the three up and see if you can tell which is which. I think you can.

[Gabe Athouse]

My experience with the dillon is the powder drop is almost always within a tenth of a grain of my desired charge. That works plenty good for what i'm doing. I have no reason to believe my scale is crazy off, I just gotta trust what it says.

[G17]

Yah, i believe you guys. I'm really looking forward to being able to use a powder measure and speed things up. I understand that that its more then acceptable for what i need it for. Was just curious what everyone had to say. This thread isn't meant to be a debate between the two or anything. Obviously the powder measure is the preferred method.

[chaosshooter00]

I have a 550 and was concerned over the +/- and put a Uniquetek micrometer powder bar on it. On my Square Deal and 650, I didn't see the need to spend the money and they have worked just fine for tens of thousands of rounds. Just my .02

[truborshooter]

most scales have +/- .10 of a grain reliability, ie the scale reads 3.6 = the actual weight is somewhere between 3.5--3.7

some higher end electronic scales are +/- .05 of a grain 3.6= 3.55-3.65 or even +/- .01 but using it is a problem,

just the wind current of your breath would cause it to flutter, there is 437.5 grains per ounce (7000/16)

as mentioned by others, almost all of our powder measures are volumetric and a good one might hold +/- .10

depending on the type of powder; ball powders fills the powder measure void like marbles, disc and flake get a little harder and extruded stick like rifle powders charges usually have to be individually weighed

so you can have a error of +/- .10 grains minimum for any given powder drop.

and in most cases you would never know it.

Edited February 25, 2014 by truborshooter

[G17]

most scales have +/- .10 of a grain reliability, ie the scale reads 3.6 = the actual weight is somewhere between 3.5--3.7

some higher end electronic scales are +/- .05 of a grain 3.6= 3.55-3.65 or even +/- .01 but using it is a problem,

just the wind current of your breath would cause it to flutter, there is 437.5 grains per ounce (7000/16)

as mentioned by others, almost all of our powder measures are volumetric and a good one might hold +/- .10

depending on the type of powder; ball powders fills the powder measure void like marbles, disc and flake get a little harder and extruded stick like rifle powders charges usually have to be individually weighed

so you can have a error of +/- .10 grains minimum for any given powder drop.

and in most cases you would never know it.

Excellent response, thank you.

[ridenrunwv]

So would be .05 grains off from your target weight and as much as .1 grain round to round? I haven't used pistol powders much but I have found that you can be off as many as 3 kernels if Varget with a standard digital scale with decimal point to the tenth of a grain. In a pistol I can't imagine it would make much difference. It really isn't even that noticeable in precision rifle loads.

Edited February 26, 2014 by ridenrunwv

[prairiefire]

I'm not a pro in this business by any stretch of the imagination, but I have had excellent luck with my Dillon. I use it for 9mm loading and will check a beginning throw plus one every 50-100 rounds just to make sure the powder dispenser isn't drifitng. The charges are measured either on my RCBS chargemaster or my RCBS 5-0-5 balance scale. Usually always within .1 if there is any variance at all. The Dillon (550b) rocks for tons of 9mm reloading.

Do you guys who shoot long range use a single stage with a Harrels for more accurate and reliably consistent loads?

[Lifeislarge]

I'm in no way close to some of the more experienced users of powder measures on here but in the last two years I've loaded thousands of rounds on my 550. At first I was nervous, and didn't trust my electronic powder scale. I was loading with a flake powder (Unique) and was worried about powder charge fluctuation. So I bought a Dillon beam scale and started using both to verify my measures and get some peace of mind. I've been loading WST (ball powder) for a while now and it is bang on every time. I always run ten charges through after the press has been sitting for a while and then measure. It's always perfect. Redundancy is good, caution is good, but to quote Risky Business, "Sometimes you just have to say what the f*#k".

[razorfish]

With a little smoothing and polishing a Dillon powder measure is quite accurate. I've found that a smooth consistent stroke on the press is equally important to maintaining accuracy and consistency.

Also... WST is not a ball powder. It's a light, fluffy powder that meters great in a Dillon measure but definitely not a ball powder.

[Lifeislarge]

I am under the impression that all Winchester pistol powders are spherical (ball). Some flatter than others.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Lifeislarge

[Gabe Athouse]

I couldn't find "light, fluffy powder that meters great" in any manuals but I think I know what he's getting at.

[RDA]

I am under the impression that all Winchester pistol powders are spherical (ball). Some flatter than others.

I believe you are correct. The "ball" is in reference to how they are made (and not their final shape which can be pretty flat). Pics of WST:

To the OP, although I am a reloading newb, there are some schools of thought that volume measurement may be more accurate than weight measurement. I believe with a powder that meters well, you can develop loads just as consistent as quality scale measure loads.

[razorfish]

So I took a few minutes this morning and learned that the term "Ball Powder" indeed has nothing to do with the physical characteristics of the powder but rather it explains how the powder is manufactured. I suppose I stand corrected but WST is the "flakiest ball powder" I use. (Taking foot out of mouth now )

I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds with WST using a Dillon powder measure and get great results with it. With that said, when I think of ball powder I think HP-38/W231 type powders. WST handles more like a flake powder. (Again, I know that technically WST a ball powder).

So to the original poster, the Dillon powder measure meters most powders with a high degree of accuracy and minimal hassle. My scale goes to .02 accuracy and I typically strive for .05 level of accuracy on my pistol loads. I'm using an Arrendondo Powder Drop Slide with a Micrometer adjuster on my Dillon powder measures. Very little hassle for me to get well within .1 grains of accuracy on my loads. You'll know your there when the SD (Standard Deviation) and ES (Extreme Spread) on your ammo tightens up. Dillon type powder measures can get you there with minimal tweaking.

[gatnfans]

ball powders fills the powder measure void like marbles, disc and flake get a little harder and extruded stick like rifle powders charges usually have to be individually weighed

I load on a 550 and have some IMR 4756 which is extruded and I use to make 9 minor. Do those of you that load extruded (if any) for handgun individually weigh? I only have it because I could not find any other at the time. I do check the measure about every 25 rounds because you hear the measure cutting the powder and grinding and I just want to make sure.

[Pasley]

ball powders fills the powder measure void like marbles, disc and flake get a little harder and extruded stick like rifle powders charges usually have to be individually weighed

I load on a 550 and have some IMR 4756 which is extruded and I use to make 9 minor. Do those of you that load extruded (if any) for handgun individually weigh? I only have it because I could not find any other at the time. I do check the measure about every 25 rounds because you hear the measure cutting the powder and grinding and I just want to make sure.

I use my scales to verify that I have set the measure properly. Other than that I don't weigh any powder, any time. One tick I have is that if I weigh a powder charge it always goes back into the hopper, never into a case.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Pasley

[frankie]

ball powders fills the powder measure void like marbles, disc and flake get a little harder and extruded stick like rifle powders charges usually have to be individually weighed

I load on a 550 and have some IMR 4756 which is extruded and I use to make 9 minor. Do those of you that load extruded (if any) for handgun individually weigh? I only have it because I could not find any other at the time. I do check the measure about every 25 rounds because you hear the measure cutting the powder and grinding and I just want to make sure.

If you care to share.. What are your specs for major with IMR 4756, I'm thinking about trying some

[rtp]

You'll find the Hornady PM quite good as well, while you'll also find more Hornady PMs sitting on Dillon presses than vice versa.

Having said that, either will get you to +/- .1gr or better when working properly and using a powder that measures decently (mainly ball/spherical powders, but see fun discussion above RE: WST )

That doesn't negate the need for a decent scale; most of us avoid any of the cheapie digitals. Personally, I'd go with the RCBS 505, or if you want digital, the GemPro 250.

What were you doing with the Windex?