niroth81 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I've been shooting for 12 months and have had troubles with the muzzle angle during reloads for a while. We have to be very careful with muzzle angle during reloads because we aren't supposed to have the muzzle angle above the berm. Here is a video of the latest match that I was in. You can see that my muzzle direction is often around 45% upwards on reloads. I have been trying lots of different methods of reloading to keep the muzzle level and still have efficient reloads, but nothing seems to be as efficient as the method I am currently using. So I'm asking for the input of the BE community to give me suggestions. If anyone has a video of a method that'll keep that muzzle down, let me know. While I'm at it, I'll happily take input about my shooting in general. Always love feedback. Cheers, Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 nice shooting Jase. Well done on 2nd place C grade. it looks like a very tough match (as I guess it should be for a state titles). Lots of stuff at pretty decent distances. You shot really well. I see what you're saying about muzzle on the reload, but to be honest yours is not as bad as many I've seen who cant the gun sideways and tilt it upwards as well. to the point it's almost pointing straight up. of course on video it's very obvious but I doubt you'd get pulled up in a match. or have you been? I would't try anything too radical. a very slight adjustment to your reloads would bring you back from the edge of what is ok back into the 'safe' zone again. also, what camera are you using? it worked really nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niroth81 Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks BeerBaron. I missed out on first place by 40 odd points, you can tell the stages where I went too fast or screwed up. I haven't been DQ'd for the muzzle angle, but I've had it mentioned to me a by the RO once (in a previous match), and also from other shooters spectating and watching my videos. I used to have a very steep muzzle high angle like you mentioned and I've bought it down, but still had comments that it's too high. (We are very strict on safety down under). Should I be keeping the gun further away from me when I reload to reduce the angle? Just not sure on what physical changes I need to make to get it to an acceptable level. I had tried reloading with my strong arm at extension and that does keep the muzzle down, but I just don't seem to be able to do that during matches. The cam is the Sony Action Cam. Check out the other videos on my youtube channel to see it performing in different light. 60FPS @ 1080P, up to 120FPS @ 720P (no audio). Mounted to my ear pro. Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hey Jase, I'm an aussie shooter too. I know how it is! muzzle angle (as in elevation) is something they seem to have started cracking down on over the last 12 months or so. I know a master grade shooter at my club who has reloaded the same way for years (similar to your technique) and points his muzzle a lot higher than yours and he's just started getting pulled up on it. extending the gun out from your body is not the answer. having it in close and up near your chest is the right thing to do. perhaps keeping it up a tiny big higher might bring the muzzle down a little? you are so close to being 'ok' now that I think with a little work on it and being conscious of it during practice/training hopefully it will become routine and then in matches it wont be pointing above the top of the berm. ok, I watched it again. most were ok actually. the reload at approx 2:09 was a bit high. I think the cure is not to cant the gun so much. on the times when the muzzle goes really high I notice you are doing 2 things. holding the gun fairly low and you cant it a lot so that the mag opening is at 90 degrees or even a touch higher. try bringing that down to more like 45-70 degrees and in bringing your hand up a bit it should keep the muzzle closer to horizontal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msg73 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hi Jase. It seems like you're curling your strong arm and bringing the gun closer to you and dropping the gun down towards your chest level. Try keeping the gun high (at eye level) and just rotate the gun clockwise to see the magwell while keeping the muzzle fairly level. This would also help you get back on target faster. Good shooting BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle7735 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The way our bodies work its nearly impossible to perform a reload with the gun pivoting perfectly on the barrels axis. Your arm would have to be perfectly straight to not elevate the muzzle. Both a non ergonomic and inefficient thing. Both of which are terrible for what we are trying to do. I hate to say it but i dont have any idea how to get the muzzle lower without either redesigning our bodies or the gun. Both of which are unfeasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 jase, I just went and bought a sony action cam. could you perhaps post a pic of how you mounted it to your muffs? or even just explain how? had a play with it. it's a nice little unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niroth81 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Sure thing. The bit I used are: A go pro tripod mount. Google will find you plenty at dirt cheap prices. Mine cost me only a few bucks. The Sony skeleton frame pack. This was a bit more expensive, about 40 dollars I think. I have Peltor sport tac ear pro. They have a solid steel spring band on them that goes over the head. I removed the rubber cover and drilled a hole. Found the correct diameter /thread pitch phillips head screw and cut it to length, then whacked it on the belt sander to make the head of the bolt very flat. Cut a hole in the rubber and mount the go pro tripod mount to the screw. You get a "go pro adapter" with the Sony cam, so use that to attach the mount clip from the skeleton frame, put the cam in the frame and snap it on. It's fairly low profile and gives me the best angle for my purposes. Hope this helps. Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 ahh, that;s the piece I got in the kit? the little piece with a 3 pronged knob on it and the eyelet? funnily enough I use the peltor tactical sport muffs too. one tip for your muffs if you havent done it already. buy a pair of the peltor HY-80 gel cups. they are replacements for the cups on the $1000 aircraft muffs. they fit straight onto the tactical sports. they increase the NRR but most importantly they create 2 seals which is needed when using muffs with glasses (as we all are) and they improve comfort dramatically too. They shouldn't cost you more than $60USD delivered. That is the best $60 I've spent on any shooting related gear. nothing else comes close. Thanks a lot for that help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It almost looked like you lifted your gun up during the load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niroth81 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Ben, I've watched and rewatched and done some dryfire practice at home. When i hit the mag release I am breaking my grip and bringing the gun down probably further than I need to, and then lifting the gun up slightly to try and get it in the right position for the reload. Thanks for pointing it out as I hadn't really noticed it till now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 My local club has similar rules regarding muzzle angle. I found that if I keep the gun raised at eye level I become much more aware of the angle. At eye level you also have clear vision on the magwell which should help speed up your reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Perhaps try something like this?: First, let the mag drop prettiy much straight down without canting the gun in or out.. The mag should fall quickest this way anyhow. The muzzle will be pretty much kept pointed into the impact area of the berm you were just shooting. Then rotate the gun into the reloading position, not by bringing the elbow in and down, wihich will tend to raise the muzzle, but more by rotating at the wrist, laying the gun out close to the horizontal with the strong hand side down. Muzzle will be away from you and to the weak hand side. Lower the whole strong side forearm and gun down below eye level, to the high ready position or even lower. Keep the gun flat to see the mag well. Bring the fresh mag to the gun horizontally, not moving up and diagonally across the body which again may require tilting the gun up, but flat and away from you. It helps to keep the forefinger along the fresh mag, a straight wrist, and the weak side elbow high. This works for some, but not everybody, and is a bit slower for me that my standard technique which points the gun up. Ben is a pro who may have better insights to offer based on what he sees in the vid (can't access it here). Try different techniques and good luck! Edited February 26, 2014 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsapshooter Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Your raising your arm to reload. Instead keep your arm extended, roll your wrist to the right, bringing the mag out and up into the gun. roll your wrist over to th shooting position and bang away. This way your on target and are much quicker recovering your target after reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Good shooting. I think it was next to last stage you came around corner to the right to finish up. You went forward and and shot your way to the right. I would practice shooting on the move and start engaging as you come around the corner from right to left. always faster to shoot on the move if you can. Those were pretty close targets so you probably could have been quite a bit faster. No comments for the reloading angles since it doesn't pertain to me and I don't believe in that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The closer you pull the gun in when reloading the greater your muzzle angle will be. Your reloads are looking good. Try practicing with reloading the gun further out. It is more difficult but can be a little faster if done correctly. Also, geometry says that your right elbow might be a point of focus for practice. The more that drops the greater the angle. See if you can push that elbow to the right on your reload instead of just down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhuk Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Hi Jase. It seems like you're curling your strong arm and bringing the gun closer to you and dropping the gun down towards your chest level. Try keeping the gun high (at eye level) and just rotate the gun clockwise to see the magwell while keeping the muzzle fairly level. This would also help you get back on target faster. Good shooting BTW. G'day Jase, I think msg73 here nails it - still keep it up but not too high (or you will be canting it upwards to access the magwell properly) then pull in slightly towards you while still holding horizontal. Have to ever been squadded with Mark Kissum? He has a very level reload in this way. Are you heading up to Dalby in June? Apparently they are going to rigidly police any slightly raised angle considered to be able to potentially fire over the backstop...and since I hadn't planned on going until, uh yesterday I'd better start watching out for my reloads, or getting someone else to check em lol Edited March 27, 2014 by zhuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 The match looked good. Nice shooting. Some of the berms look pretty low to me it's going to be a challenge to stay below them. I have severe arthritis in my hand so I have to release the magazine with my weak hand thumb which lets me keep my grip on the gun and not have to roll it in my strong hand to get to the mag release which points the muzzle up. I just keep the gun high and turn my hand clockwise to look the magazine into the well. Thank God our berms aren't waist level like some of yours appear to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dferrier Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Here is how this guy did it: Although you can't see his thumb or how he dropped the mag, but his muzzle didn't move much... Edited April 2, 2014 by dferrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlestackman Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 HaHa, Movies are such crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 yeah he would punish in the world shoot with splits that fast and reloads like that.... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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